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Post by Richie3Jack on Jan 13, 2012 15:09:02 GMT -5
MOI and Swingweight Data For those who are interested in MOI fitting and matching, but are skeptical about it. I will take your clubs, put them on the machine and give a spec sheet for each club. - length - total weight - balance point - swingweight (to the nearest tenth) - MOI I believe this will show the great variance in MOI between clubs. Golfer pays for shipping (both ways) and an extra $30 per set for service. MOI MATCHING (NON-WISHON EQUIPMENT)Here we will work together to get the MOI fitted and then matched for the irons. This will be done mostly thru lead tape because non-Wishon equipment is not as MOI matching friendly. We'll negotiate a price for hosel weights. Charge is buyer pays for shipping +$50 per set (up to 13 clubs). WISHON EQUIPMENT Some ask about what is so special about Wishon equipment? Tom Wishon has decades worth of experience in club design and clubfitting and has made and designed clubs for many famous golfers like Payne Stewart. By itself, I strongly believe that Wishon's equipment is as good or even better than the equipment of the leading OEM's. However, Wishon has designed his equipment to be more friendly towards MOI matching. For instance, the clubheads are generally lighter than the leading OEM clubheads which means if you want to MOI match with an OEM's line of equipment, you may wind up having to alter the shaft length, shaft weight or grind the clubhead as some of the clubs may wind up having too heavy of an MOI. Thus, I believe when you combine MOI matching with Wishon equipment, you will get equipment that is far superior to any of the major OEM's. With the equipment you will get: - Grip of your choice - Shaft of your choice - Spine alignment of shaft - MOI matching - Spec sheet, fully detailing the entire specs of the club from clubhead weight, loft, lie angle, shaft weight, shaft balance point, grip weight, shaft torque, length, swingweight, MOI, etc. (I'll post a sample spec sheet up shortly).  Also, Wishon's 919THI driver has tested out the best on shots that miss the sweetspot. His 929HS and 949MC fairway woods along with his 775HS hybrids have the highest COR legally possible, discovered and created 8 years before the Taylor Made Rocketballz technology. To those serious inquiries, I will provide a demo 6-iron with their preferred shaft for them to. They would just pay for shipping (the cost for shipping would be included if they wind up purchasing the set). For a quote, I would need to be e-mailed at Richie3Jack@yahoo.com. I believe that for a set of Wishon irons (3-PW) with spine aligned shafts and MOI fitted and matched clubs, we could see savings from 20%-70% over leading manufacturer's irons. 3JACK
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Post by Richie3Jack on Feb 24, 2012 9:57:53 GMT -5
I should be getting a 555C and 555M 6-irons with the spiral lock system in the next couple of months.
What I have been doing is I have a 555C and 555M 6-irons and letting customers demo them first. I simply install the shaft they would like to have, then when I get the club back, I remove the shaft myself with the hand torch.
The spiral lock system is much like the removable shaft systems you see with Mizuno and Titleist clubs. So when I get the system, I can give the customer a bunch of shafts to demo with each iron head. I also think this will help with graphite iron shafts.
I'm also thinking of doing a newsletter just based on the clubfitting services. I would probably not have any set date for the newsletter, but I figure I would do it no more than once a quarter and probably more like twice a year.
3JACK
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Post by cwdlaw223 on Feb 24, 2012 10:49:05 GMT -5
Richie -
Are you selling the fairway and driver heads?
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Post by Richie3Jack on Feb 24, 2012 11:31:56 GMT -5
Yes, I do sell the heads separately. However, there have to be some special circumstances like a customer may have a shaft in their current driver that they like and just need that shaft removed and installed in that head. Or perhaps they can get an OEM shaft for cheap than what I can get them. I do sell them at at an upcharge because I don’t want to just be selling clubheads all of the time. And I may just not sell them if there are too many ‘head only’ requests
I looked at your posts on Wishon’s forum.
Wishon is recommending the 739CCG driver, NOT the 919THI. Mainly because he can get the face angle of the 739CCG open as you like.
I have not hit or seen the 739CCG head, yet.
However, I agree with Mr. Nix…I think your problem can be resolved with finding the proper MOI weight for your driver and I think the RBZ may have been a little off in the MOI.
I’ve been considering getting the spiral lock for the 919THI head. It would not be cheap because the head itself is not cheap and then I would have to purchase graphite shafts. Then I would have to find a way to ensure that the customer takes care of them. I would probably have to do some sort of deposit and then make ½ of it non-refundable unless they wound up purchasing a club from me.
3JACK
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Post by cwdlaw223 on Feb 24, 2012 13:54:21 GMT -5
I'm looking more for a three wood. The open face didn't really cure anything.
On a different note, is there such thing as vertical gear effect in irons?
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Post by Richie3Jack on Feb 24, 2012 14:07:01 GMT -5
Yes, the fairway wood. There's the 929HS and 949MC. Both are High-COR clubs that Taylor Made is promoting with the RBZ. And yes, they are very 'hot' and I hit the hell out of them.
What's nice about them is that they both have a weight port at the bottom of the club. You can simply find your MOI weight using some lead tape. Then once that is found, you can add the proper amount of weight into the weight port and just epoxy the Wishon Medallion to hold the weight in place.
This is different from the driver where if you don't want the lead tape on the hosel, you have to remove the shaft, add a hosel weight and then re-epoxy the shaft.
If you like smaller, shallower heads...go with the 929HS. If not, go with the 949MC, which is still smaller than the RBZ 3-wood head.
I don't know about VGE with the irons. Never really heard of it.
I know in Wishon's 'The Search For The Perfect Driver' he talks about 'face roll' which is the vertical curve design that woods tend to have. This is like the 'face bulge' where woods are curved a little from heel to toe to help with the gear effect.
According to Wishon, there was never really a design purpose for face roll. And then once the drivers got bigger and bigger, the face roll became more pronounced. So if you hit the ball higher up on the face, you would be hitting the ball on a spot where there is more loft. Conversely, hit lower on the face, there is less loft.
That's where all that 'hot spot is up towards the crown' stuff started. People were using too low of a loft and were not hitting it as far when they hit the sweet spot. But, once they started hitting the ball more towards the crown where there was extra loft, they started to gain some distance because that extra loft is more what fit their swing speed.
Wishon's drivers are made with virtually no face roll. Thus his clubfitters can focus on getting the right loft for golfers dependent upon swing speed and attack angle and they can focus on hitting it the best and furthest by hitting the sweet spot with the right amount of loft instead of hitting more towards the crown.
So, I've never heard of vertical gear effect, but that's what I would guess it's referencing to and I don't see how it would apply with irons.
3JACK
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dhc1
'88 Apex Redlines
Posts: 178
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Post by dhc1 on Mar 7, 2012 18:04:30 GMT -5
Rich,
How do you determine what's the best MOI for a particular golfer? from what i've read, it's by feel and you take your favorite club and use that as the baseline. What if your favorite club is that way because of lower loft?
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Post by Richie3Jack on Mar 7, 2012 19:00:38 GMT -5
With irons, it's determined by impact dispersion. For the most part, the same with hybrids and fairways. With the driver, we can't really get that impact dispersion super small like we do with the irons. Mainly because of the length of the club and the high rate of speed we are swinging it.
So with the driver, it's done mostly by impact dispersion and secondarily by ball flight.
However, I generally fit MOI 2nd to last. I fit for the length and shaft first. Then get an idea of the MOI weight, then when the MOI is set, I then recommend re-checking the lie angle to account for shaft droop.
3JACK
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Post by Richie3Jack on Mar 23, 2012 8:16:34 GMT -5
I got a few clubs in today. Wishon 575MMC I got the 3-iron. I mainly got it because I wanted to try out some steel shafts. I test them in a demo 555M 6-iron I have versus my gamer 6-iron. I figured that if I like the shafts, I would question how well those shafts would perform in the 3-iron. Anyway, in the end I decided to try out the 575MMC for shits and giggles and just got the 3-iron. Weird head because it looks very much like a player's cavity back. Very small head (surprisingly small) and a thin top-line and not much offset. But, you can clearly see the back cavity due to the wider sole. Again, it's the 3-iron, so I'll have to see what th 6-iron looks like someday. Wishon 560MC  Not a big fan of the back stamping on the club, but these look really nice for cavity back irons at address. They look a bit like the Scratch Golf AR-1 model, but IMO with a little less offset. I needed to get a demo club of these, so I got the 6-iron for a customer. I'm going to test it out myself on Saturday, but it does have a Wishon White, Regular flex graphite shaft which is way too light and soft for me. Wishon Steel Stepless ShaftsThese are allegedly designed to be for golfers who have preferred the feel of iron shafts like the Dynamic Gold or Rifle – but they are not as tip stiff as the Project X steel iron shafts. I got these in stiff flex. Typically Wishon's shafts play stiffer than normal and I find that an X100 shaft is more like a stiff flex in Wishon's shafts. I looked at the bend profile and I think it looks pretty good, although a smidge softer at the mid section than I would like. I have no idea what the deal is on those True Temper High Launch shafts. I really don't enjoy Best Buy Golf Supply. 3JACK |
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Post by cloran on Mar 23, 2012 8:33:56 GMT -5
Thanks for the topline pic... that's a small head fo' sho'...
I'm not a fan of any badges, but the new ones for the 560mc irons are just flat out ugly. I'd take them off in a heartbeat.
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Post by Richie3Jack on Mar 23, 2012 8:43:31 GMT -5
That 560MC head doesn't look that small in person. Like I said, if you have seen the Scratch Golf AR-1's, they look pretty similar at address.
The 575MMC heads are very small. Noticeably smaller than the 555's
3JACK
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Post by Richie3Jack on Mar 24, 2012 7:44:02 GMT -5
I think Wishon may have done it again with the stepless shafts. I will put them to the test hopefully today to see what the distance is like, although the 555M with the stepless is 8-grams lighter overall than the 555M with the KBS, which bodes for some increased swing speed.
But, I was quite impressed with the feel and the trajectory of these shafts. Just about perfect. The feel really surprised me.
The 560MC with the Wishon Graphite came in super-duper-light...only at 2,488. Lightest MOI-weight I've recorded with a club, yet. Which is good because the customer who wants to try this needs ultra-light clubs given his age. This club felt alright. But hard to get a feel for a club that is roughly 225 kg/cm^2 lighter that what you are fitted for.
The 575MMC 3-iron was alright. I just don't see a need for me to change from the 555C 3-iron which I flush, constantly. The question becomes if the 555C 3-iron will work well with the Stepless Shaft.
3JACK
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Post by Richie3Jack on Mar 25, 2012 19:15:15 GMT -5
Tried the Stepless Wishon vs. the KBS Tour side-by-side. Same ball, same everything. I think I hit the same exact distance. I actually like the Wishon's feel much better. Feels fantastic. Probably the biggest surprise. Spin is questionable. Although it does appear I get less spin with the Wishon. I'm going to try and get on Trackman soon and see what the numbers say.
3JACK
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jessev
Beat up Radials
Posts: 9
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Post by jessev on Apr 26, 2013 16:50:01 GMT -5
I had the Wishon 555M 8-PW heads made up with KBS Tour shafts. Sweet heads and I highly recommend them.
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Post by Richie3Jack on Apr 27, 2013 8:58:12 GMT -5
You'll like the 575MMC muscle back heads as well. I just got the rest of my irons and shafts, today.  3JACK |
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