CP vs. CF (release) / Punch vs. Pitch (elbow)

I have a more vertical swing plane with my clubs and feel like my third accumulator is my main power source. I struggle with closure issues, however, I hit the ball the farthest on a more vertical swing plane and my club comes into impact on the TSP. I don't use a lot of the number four (although I know it's used). I clearly swing more like Retief's pattern than Hogan's pattern above.

Not to get off subject, but isn't that the WRONG idea of what torque is?

Does centrifugal = swinging and centripetal = hitting? Seems a bit simplistic, but I am sure I have read this somewhere. Is this from before ‘switting’ and the various other ways to hit a ball inbetween were described (and no, I would not like to get involved with any discussion on whether pure swinging or hitting exist – I am just interested)?

Post-impact, I can definitely see the difference, but would be interested to hear what anyone says about the general shape of the swing and what sort of moves are recommended to be built in to better achieve one or the other.

For example, comparing Goosen’s right elbow at the top, it is definitely more behind him and to his side than later Hogan who has it more infront. JJ Henry does this really nicely, as does Boo Weekley.

It seems to me that Hogan, Henry and Weekley have kept the relationship between the right elbow and the right hip much more closely. Goosen on the other hand needs to get his hands and arms more infront of his body, so they will have to swing out more towards the targetline. If they all had a piece of elastic between belt-buckles and right elbows, Goosen’s would be stretched a lot more. The other guys are going to bring their hands out to the ball and back to the inside by rotation, less up and down the line.

This is similar to a discussion we had recently regarding the angle of the left arm and shoulders at the top – this angle will be more acute for Goosen and he should get more power from getting his right arm away from his chest.

Pitch and punch elbow, believe it or not, I still don’t get! It’s like a mental block. Pictures of these two would be appreciated.

John Erickson of ABS fame defines hitting and swinging differently than TGM does...even though John learned TGM at the age of 14.

TGM Hitting as defined by Homer Kelley = the golfer drive loads the club

TGM Swinging as defined by Homer Kelley = golfer drag loads the club.

THAT IS IT

All of the other stuff does not determine hitting or swinging. It's all about whether the golfer pushes with the right arm (hitting) or pulls with the left arm (swinging) as the way *Homer Kelley* defined it.

John Erickson Hitting = CP release (aka swinging left)

John Erickson Swinging = CF release (aka swinging out to the right).

I don't believe any really good player purely hits or purely swings and that they do a little of both. In that sense, I think John is onto something by defining those terms by how the golfer releases the club.

Now, determining that hitting = CP and swinging = CF is up for debate. Erickson feels that with the CP release it is 'pivot driven hitting' where you pivot and 'hit' with the hands. Wherease CF is more of a pivot stall and you 'swing the arms.'

But I think the 'pivot stall' in CF could be described as hitting (and the 'pivot driven' CP swing could be described as swinging).

Either way, Erickson's description of hitter and swinger is very different from Homer Kelley's.

Personally, I really don't worry about that anymore.






3JACK

I don't worry about it either Richie, but it certainly makes for interesting discussion.

Can you CP and "swing". I don't know. It would be interesting to have a discussion with the better CP players and ask them what they feel they do in the golf swing, such as Duval. I agree he is doing both but do you think his pivot is just supporting the driving right arm or is it pulling his arm.

to me, on a leveraged swing, i would like the shaft to return very close to the set up angle. but i do not think i am getting any more power by keeping that angle. my pivot squares the clubface not the hands, therefore i do not feel that i am gaining any power from number 3 as i have not rolled my forearms or hands.

now, if i am uncocking and rolling, i could get some power. how much depends on how much you uncock or how much you roll. you could uncock all of #2 and not have any power left...does that make any sense?

good question. i do not want to dump #2 or use #3 in my golf swing. when going left, and viewing from behind, i want the hands to disappear quickly, and still have most of the angle of #2 that i had at address. my pivot will square the face. cp will happen without me doing anything. it is a term used be slicefixer
to distinguish the difference from a cf swing, which by the way he calls that slinging. you are a leveraged{cp} or a slinger[cf] type of swinger. this is where one can get messed up on a forum. as erikson has a different meaning for hitters and swingers than tgm. hope this clears the air. i just do not think that most people know the differences in a cf or cp swing. by the way, you stated that you were not sure that you were doing cp on your driver. it is very hard to tell the difference when you are reviewing film. but you will know by the feel of your swing.

i would not think about using 1 2 3 or 4. they are a result. just like a flat left wrist. proper mechanics will give proper results. sometimes what we learn from studying tgm hurts us more than it helps. and it is not the fault of the book. it is how one interprets the book and then tries to apply that knowledge to his or her swing. you know what i mean.

homer wanted us to have a common language. your question to me just proved that we do not. like, how did we come up with cf and cp? there are many people that do not have a clue about their differences.

as slicefixer would say, "do you understand" he must say it 50 times an hour.