|
Post by golfdad on Jan 5, 2012 11:11:21 GMT -5
Alright guys, time to sacrifice family members in the name of science or art. Here is my older one's swing from the recent break. A little wimpy swing that works for her. She tends to hit pretty straight and when I shared with her with effusing enthusiasm that she has been doing it wrong, that she should hit left with irons and right with driver to get better, she looked at me as if saying, dad, please, you don't even play. Oh come on, you can't possibly trust Golf Digest more than your dad! So, tell me about her swing and why she has not done any swinging left or right because in our basement they don't have this advanced knowledge. www.youtube.com/watch?v=OR8fh9bOwiU&feature=g-upl&context=G28ffa84AUAAAAAAAAAA
|
|
|
Post by willgolfer on Jan 5, 2012 11:21:04 GMT -5
The only way you'll be terribly inconsistent if you have a consistent zero path number is due to inconsistent face angle. Producing a zero path number means you're well on your way to striking the ball well since there are two big variables (path and face angle) that determine ballflight. (Of course there are others, but face angle and path are the big ones). Its much easier to fix your path than your face angle in my opinion. Controlling the face angle consistently is hard. Why? Because the club face is coming through impact very quickly (90-100 mph+ for most with a driver) and that takes practice and good timing to keep consistent. Consistentcy is the key. If you can consistently produce the same number, even if it's a little wacked out, you can aim accordingly and get the ball in play. My face angle is consistently closed by 4* and my path close to zero. That's not good on paper, but it works for me on the course because it's consistent. Golf is hard because of so many moving parts that must match up to get a playable miss. Yes i agree controlling the face is difficult, but it is MUCH easier if you release the club in the manner that those players i mentioned did. Golf is all about consistentcy, and you will be much more consistent if you have control over the clubface through impact, which you will if you learn to release the club like those guys did and you wont be concerned with "timing".
|
|
|
Post by cwdlaw223 on Jan 5, 2012 11:24:15 GMT -5
I don't think she swings wrong. Hitting it straight necessitates the zeroing out of path and face angle but that doesn't mean the swing is wrong, bad or incorrect if you don't zero out.
What type of shot does she want to play under pressure? What shot allows her mind to be calm and have confidence? Once you know that shot you can play around with the D plane alignment stuff.
The lower the ballspeed the straighter the shot. Part of the geometry of the shot.
Just my opinion and I'm not a teacher. Others might disagree, I care about what happens under pressure. Plenty of great looking range swings that crumble under pressure on the course.
|
|
|
Post by golfdad on Jan 5, 2012 11:33:36 GMT -5
She is different from you where her stock shot and the shot that she is comfortable with is dead straight shot. She feels that knowing how to draw and fade may be a good skill but most of the shots are better off with straight shots and most people with so called draws and fades are not that well controlled thus not that useful. ( Her IQ is decidedly higher than mine, so to her I am just noise. When I challenged her one time about a hole where the approach would be better if done with a draw, she countered by asking me about the other 17 holes.
|
|
|
Post by cwdlaw223 on Jan 5, 2012 11:47:51 GMT -5
If her stock shot is a straight shot she needs to zero out path and face. That's the only way she can hit the straight shot absent some gear effect craziness. The attack angle is very crucial in zeroing out your path. Evey book she reads doesn't talk about the attack angle and has the ballflight laws in 2D. If your attack angle is zero it becomes easier to zero out your clubpath.
If you become a picker of the ball (zero attack angle most of the time) you normally won't deloft the club as most do by taking beaver pelt divots (like I do).
I find it's easier to swing left with the irons and aim right with the driver to hit a straight shot. Just my way. If she wants to play tournament golf check the impact out on a Trackman if you want detail.
|
|
|
Post by gmbtempe on Jan 5, 2012 11:50:17 GMT -5
swing left...what a fuzzy phraseology! I remember seeing this term used and asked specifically on another site. I asked specifically if that means aiming/aligning left and I was told,,,NO, that swinging left is not the same as aiming left. Since I don't play golf, I guess I must be missing something. And there JM was indeed aiming left to swing left. Question: is that the accepted way of swinging left or is there another way to swing left? With a Trackman right there, being a highly reputed teacher, why not demonstrate more convincingly by first not swinging left and then swinging left to show the difference? Probably not easy to do in one take (another matter thingy deleted:) Most people who try to swing left have dont have much idea what they're doing. You can "swing left" by coming over the top and produce zeros on trackman all day long and still be a terribly inconsistent ballstriker. I believe the real way to swing left is the way the guys like Hogan, Toms, Furyk, Peete, mahan, allenby, duval from the 90s swung. The way those guys swung left involved approaching the ball from a relatively deep and shallow position, and then using body rotation combined with the arms packed tight to the body which rips the handle of the club to the left through impact, and from a dtl view the hands would disappearing post impact while the clubhead would still be in view. This is a very reliable way to swing/release the club, because you will have control over the face and a slower rate of clubface closure through impact, just coming over the top to swing left enough to produce zeros on trackman is not the way to go about it in my opinion. I think Denny stole someones login ;D I try this, friggen shoulders and hips won't cooperate
|
|
|
Post by gmbtempe on Jan 5, 2012 11:53:27 GMT -5
I think thats a really great golf swing!
|
|
|
Post by golfdad on Jan 5, 2012 11:54:08 GMT -5
I think one things she does, not sure if obvious with this clip, is that she adjusts alignment to compensate that way. With driver, she may have stepped back a little with her right foot to close her stance a little. I think this part can be instinctive, without having to know about D plane or Trackman.
She did not do well with picking on the ball. In her mind, she is a dragger. Whatever she does at impact is another thing. She tends to flip earlier than my younger one, but both seem to be after impact.
With what you have said about your swing pattern and habits and likes, I can see why Trackman may be helpful to you. You need a machine to help mold subtle moves or guide you from one to another.
When you use Trackman, is it indoor or out? Do you notice a difference?
thanks gmb. I think a person's personality has a lot to do with the eventual formation of a swing. My 2 kids got the same stuff from me, but have developed 2 different patterns. The older one has better inner tempo that is more brain/internal than athleticism or training, me think. One can teach someone only so much and the rest will creep out:)
|
|
|
Post by cwdlaw223 on Jan 5, 2012 11:58:19 GMT -5
I've used Trackman indoor and outdoor and prefer outdoor a lot more. I hate hitting into a net without seeing the shot. Better feedback.
If your daughter takes big divots she's going to need to swing left because hitting down will cause the path to go to the right. Very rarely is there a low attack angle number and huge divots, however, you can pick and still have a high attack angle number. It has to do with how long your lowpoint is in your swing. No idea how that is measured or calculated!!!
I consider myself a dragger as well. I don't release like Luke Donald.
|
|
|
Post by gmbtempe on Jan 5, 2012 12:01:25 GMT -5
Do you have the face on for Hanna, seems like that right elbow might be getting a tad behind her and then a touch late and under the plane slightly, which would necessitate a roll of the hands.
I just hate commenting on such a nice swing, just little things I notice.
|
|
|
Post by golfdad on Jan 5, 2012 12:03:42 GMT -5
The thing is she does not take much divot at all, which I have complained to her for a long time. Then I read about the new ball flight law and has since switched my stance to save face,,,what a hypocrite gmb,,,let me check things out and see, should be there...
|
|
|
Post by gmbtempe on Jan 5, 2012 12:14:42 GMT -5
The thing is she does not take much divot at all, which I have complained to her for a long time. Then I read about the new ball flight law and has since switched my stance to save face,,,what a hypocrite gmb,,,let me check things out and see, should be there... tough to take a divot when you are under and late, but this was a driver swing. I never took divots for years, could not figure out why, but now I know it had nothing to do with my angle of attack (well it was not the primary reason) but was related to path.
|
|
|
Post by golfdad on Jan 5, 2012 12:17:09 GMT -5
www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnoeQhlo-kE&feature=g-upl&context=G28ffa84AUAAAAAAAAAAI can easily see that her release action is different from my younger one's, despite same rice, same soybean milk. More flippy looking, don't you say? One thing is that she has a more neutral grip than my younger one and when I ask to her try strong grip, she wants nothing to do with it. With her being a junior in hs and looking to maintain her level of play, I feel quite uneasy being "too helpful" which has consistently worked out disastrously. But one thing good about my kids is that they can try something differently (because dad insisted) and pronounce it a bad idea and go back with no problem to their old ways. (I read that others can be screwed up more easily)
|
|
|
Post by gmbtempe on Jan 5, 2012 12:26:40 GMT -5
I think the arms and body are out of sync on both the backswing and the downswing.
She seems late for sure and saves it with her hands. Its still real nice though.
|
|
|
Post by golfdad on Jan 5, 2012 12:31:18 GMT -5
|
|