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Post by Richie3Jack on Aug 25, 2014 10:12:41 GMT -5
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Post by Richie3Jack on Aug 25, 2014 10:33:01 GMT -5
Can't say I am all that surprised outside of Tiger taking a long time to quit Haney to the point where Haney actually quit Tiger. At the 2010 Players practice round Tiger was literally hitting 'dick-mark' making pop-ups off the tee while still working with Haney and could not pull the trigger on quitting Haney. That was the absolute worst I have ever seen an established PGA Tour player hit the ball...much less arguably the greatest player ever. And he still would not quit Haney.
With that said the people I talked to close to the situation and from what I gathered Tiger was all set to quit Haney and Haney decided to beat Tiger to the punch so he could save face.
I think people are a bit too hard on Foley for the issues with Tiger. For all of the problems that Tiger has had, he did hit the driver much better with Foley than he did under the last several years under Haney (Tiger's incredible iron play, putting and lack of competition won him so many of those tournaments). And the improvements that have been made with Justin Rose and Hunter Mahan are something that Foley can always hang his hat on. There is a lot of sentiment that Foley must be a bad teacher because Tiger has regressed, but it ignores the progress of Rose, who is a top-5 player in the world and who was not anywhere near that before working with Foley and Mahan, who is a top-20 player on the PGA Tour. I think that is what many of Foley's critics miss out on. Perhaps the mechanics taught to Tiger were not going to help Tiger, but it's not like Foley has not substantially improved Tour players before.
It will be interesting to see where Tiger goes from here. History tells us that he will look for a new instructor and likely one that is gaining popularity with Tour players. However, since he is good friends with Rory who appears to do very little in the way of swing instruction (although he does use Trackman), Tiger may try and go that route.
It's rumored that Tiger tried to get in touch with Butch, but Harmon declined to teach him again. Probably too many hard feelings and at his age, Butch probably not wanting to fly all over the place to work with Tiger on a moment's notice. I would suspect that if Tiger is looking for instructors, he may be interested in Chuck Cook (who probably has the same age issues as Butch), perhaps Butch's son Claude Harmon III, Grant Waite or Chris Como.
3JACK
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dhc1
'88 Apex Redlines
Posts: 178
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Post by dhc1 on Aug 25, 2014 13:02:51 GMT -5
Sean Foley has been 10x classier than HH and his former caddy in how he's handled the split with Tiger.
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Post by theswingengineer on Aug 25, 2014 15:15:40 GMT -5
I'll have to let Tiger know I'm available most wednesdays  On a serious note, don't you think it odd one of the world's greatest golfers needs a golf instructor to show him how to hit a ball? |
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Post by Richie3Jack on Aug 25, 2014 15:42:05 GMT -5
I'll have to let Tiger know I'm available most wednesdays On a serious note, don't you think it odd one of the world's greatest golfers needs a golf instructor to show him how to hit a ball? It's easy to get addicted to swing instruction. I can't blame him for seeking out a new instructor after Haney. His ballstriking off the tee was so poor that it was literally unbelievable. I also think that Tiger likes a more detailed approach to the game and I think he suffered from the same exact thing I suffered from when I started struggling in college... He knew very little about the swing and then when he started to struggle all of the little 'tips' he used to fix the problems weren't working...and then he had no idea how to fix the problem. It's great to have little swing thoughts and be able to be like Fred Couples and just get up there and hit it without much thought or knowledge. But, once you start to struggle and you can't fix it like you normally do...you're in for a rough trip. Personally, I hope that he focus more on his body and take all of that muscle off and look more like he did when he first came out on Tour. The trainers are always going to believe that you can add all that muscle and with 'proper' stretching you'll be flexible enough. But, the body doesn't really work that way. And you start to see athletes that gain more raw power, but lose that explosiveness. That's what happened to Hall of Fame O-Lineman Larry Allen. He started to work less on weight lifting designed for explosiveness and started to focus more on pure power based weight lifting. At first he had some immediate success and was able to bench 700 lbs. But, in just 2 years he started to get injuries and he lost his explosiveness. But, I've seen this happen to a lot of athletes from different sports. For golf, I would rather look like Sadlowski than say Ray Lewis. 3JACK |
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Post by theswingengineer on Aug 25, 2014 16:20:30 GMT -5
It's easy to get addicted to swing instruction. I can't blame him for seeking out a new instructor after Haney. His ballstriking off the tee was so poor that it was literally unbelievable. I also think that Tiger likes a more detailed approach to the game and I think he suffered from the same exact thing I suffered from when I started struggling in college... He knew very little about the swing and then when he started to struggle all of the little 'tips' he used to fix the problems weren't working...and then he had no idea how to fix the problem. It's great to have little swing thoughts and be able to be like Fred Couples and just get up there and hit it without much thought or knowledge. But, once you start to struggle and you can't fix it like you normally do...you're in for a rough trip. Personally, I hope that he focus more on his body and take all of that muscle off and look more like he did when he first came out on Tour. The trainers are always going to believe that you can add all that muscle and with 'proper' stretching you'll be flexible enough. But, the body doesn't really work that way. And you start to see athletes that gain more raw power, but lose that explosiveness. That's what happened to Hall of Fame O-Lineman Larry Allen. He started to work less on weight lifting designed for explosiveness and started to focus more on pure power based weight lifting. At first he had some immediate success and was able to bench 700 lbs. But, in just 2 years he started to get injuries and he lost his explosiveness. But, I've seen this happen to a lot of athletes from different sports. For golf, I would rather look like Sadlowski than say Ray Lewis. 3JACK None of us are immune to "tinkering-itus", even the best. You can change little things here and there, and before you know it, you're playing awful and can't remember how you used to swing. In martial arts circles they have a saying- "First practice until you get it right, then practice until you don't get it wrong." Unfortunately most touring pros are forever trying to perfect their swings, trying to "get it right", without realising their swing is probably as good as it'll get - or at least as good as it needs to be. If your game's good enough to score in the 60s on the hardest courses, against the best players, all you should be doing is practicing what you've got until you don't get it wrong. It's boring, and it won't suddenly win you tournaments over night, but it's the only recipe for long-term success. You're right about the muscle mass. The best build for golf, in my opinion, is tall and lanky. Recently McIlroy seems to have beefed up. If I were him I'd concentrate on remaining healthy, fit and flexible, ensuring I have a long career on tour, rather than putting on muscle. Still, he's had a good year! |
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Post by gmbtempe on Aug 25, 2014 16:55:12 GMT -5
Tiger's broken....Bill Glasson redux.
It happens. Great career though.
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Post by golfbaka on Aug 26, 2014 3:17:51 GMT -5
Tiger's broken....Bill Glasson redux. It happens. Great career though. Hate to say it but it looks that way. I agree with Richie that he needs to shed some of that muscle mass. |
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Post by golfbaka on Aug 26, 2014 4:23:51 GMT -5
If I were a betting man I'd put my money on either Pete Cowen or Grant Waite.
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