3Jack Swing Progress Journal

[Richie3Jack]

I’m pretty much caught up to where I am at now in this ‘swing journal.’

In the previous post I discussed the visual of ‘pulling the left hip back” in transition by using Anterior Pelvic Tilt.



I was trying that, but it wasn’t quite working for me. I would tend to not get enough APT and would instead just try to pull the left hip back. And that would often lead to actually less pelvic rotation.

Instead, I wanted to visualize pulling the entire left leg backwards. Kelvin took video of Scott Stallings who does this:



I don’t have any intentions of actually doing it like Stallings, but that is the visual (and again, I only use visuals on the range and on practice swings, not the actual swing).

Kelvin has students that do this like John Oda:



These stills show it more clearly for me.



The only issue for me is to remember to get the left leg into extension which is so critical in getting that ‘second fire.’ I started to get it down really good last night and was hitting those ‘climbers’ that were going dead straight. It was easy to really open hard left and not miss left.

Another issue I started to see was that I was leaving some room to spare when it came to left hip internal rotation in the backswing. And for me, years of “start the downswing from the ground up” is still ingrained and I tend to kick out the left knee towards the target which is a death move in my swing. That is going to lead to slide, extend, stall and flip-roll all day. So I started to focus a bit more on getting as much left hip IR as I comfortably could in the backswing and that’s when I started to hit some magnificent shots.

IMO, I think our brain tends to fight against us golfers in the swing. We become afraid of getting that rotation because we are subconsciously guarding against missing left or coming over the top. And we tend to get into right shoulder internal rotation because we think that will add power and/or that will prevent a slice. My thoughts coming away from last night’s range session is that the mental part of getting over the fear of rotating and the fear of sustaining right shoulder ER is half the battle.

[Richie3Jack]

This week I was working on the following:

1. Grip (left hand a little stronger with the heel pad more on top of the grip)

2. Pulling the left leg back in transition with Anterior Pelvic Tilt

3. Making sure to get left leg extension before impact.

I was also noticing that (at least I believe it to be true), you can stick with external rotation of the left hip and still get the pelvis to rotate.

I think Sadlowski and Spieth do it. But, they do it inverting their left foot.





I don't think going back into internal hip rotation or sticking with external hip rotation and inverting the left ankle is better than the other. It's about how you can get the pelvis to rotate and keep the left hip behind the left ankle at impact.

On Thursday I hurt my foot by stepping on a golf tee with my bare foot. I didn't practice on Friday or do anything on Saturday. Typically in the past I would be worried that I would lose some of the progress I worked on. I was rusty on Sunday and played the first 5 holes at +2 over. Then I played the last 10 holes at -4 and hit the last 10 GIR.

I was pretty mindful of my foot in the beginning. But in the end I hit 14 GIR and had a +18 '15/5 Score.' What I liked is that I hit some drives I've never hit at Rio Pinar and I used to be a member there. I had 118 yards into #3 (the old #12). I think at best I would have roughly 145 yards into that hole. I had about 120 yards into #6 (old #15) and I hit that well off the toe. I had about 115 yards into #9 (the old #18) and I would usually have about 150 yards. I flew it into the right bunker on #10 and didn't hit it well (usually I would roll it into the bunker).

So, I'm happy with my progress, but I'm going to keep working at it for a few more weeks before I send a video to Kelvin. I also just got my weighted bar, so once the foot heals up I'm going to start doing the fascia training.











3JACK

[Richie3Jack]

Yesterday was a very good day. There are many great facets to utilizing the movement pattern training that Lucas Wald teaches. It's not only good at ingraining new mechanics, but it's just as valuable at learning the new mechanics.

This is how I started to figure out how to rotate the pelvis in the downswing while keeping the leg straight and the left hip behind the left ankle. I practiced the movement enough that I was able to connect the dots and say "I think I need to get back into dual hip IR as I go thru impact to accomplish this.'

I think one of my larger issues is that I don't quite get that left leg extension soon enough.

I think young Jack Nicklaus did this as well as any competitive golfer:





By the 3rd picture I see that left leg extending. The 2nd picture it is still in flexion as he has gotten into Anterior Pelvic Tilt, but then he extends it noticeably and keeps extending into impact.

I think part of the key is you have to get the CoP towards the left side with APT and not get into Right Pelvic Tilt. I think Victor Rodriguez shows how it's done in this video.



Victor gets to about 97% of the CoP on his right foot at the top of the swing. Then he 'drops' and goes from 97% on his right foot to 11% on his right foot (89% on his left). Then has he goes into impact his CoP is 48% on his right foot. As far as his left foot goes, he's at 3% at the top, 89% thru transition and 52% at impact. If I just straighten the left leg out without getting the CoP towards the left at some point, I won't be able to use the ground to help me internally rotate the left hip and get the pelvic rotation I want.

I just think that the ground reaction force people are too into starting from the ground up and are consciously into flexing the knees instead of letting APT and the subsequent lowering of the pelvis do the work for them. I can't see Nicklaus unconsciously flexing his knees. It looks pretty clear to me that he already had the left knee flexed and just used APT to keep it flexed and get his right knee flexed as well. By "starting fro the ground up" and creating a jump motion, you're using more vertical forces and less rotational forces and the hips are more likely to stall and that will cause the golf to "throw their hands at it." It can still power a golf swing and I do believe all things being equal, if you have the proper wrist motion to increase the rate of closure, you can gain more speed.

But, how much speed are you really gaining by increasing the rate of closure...1, 2 or 3 mph?

On the flip side, we know that all you have to do is be 1 degree off with the clubface and that can be the difference between a good shot and a terrible shot.

My feeling is that you would be better off learning how to rotate the pelvis more to make up for any loss of club speed from not increasing the rate of closure and keep the face stabilized so you can hit it straight.

In the end, I was really working on the visual of "delaying the hit" until my left leg was extended first. I hit some really great drives with a lot of pop out there. Now I'm just trying to keep it going and get enough quality reps in so where I don't have to think about it.






3JACK

[Richie3Jack]

I'm pretty excited to get out and play this weekend. My dad and I are going to play ChampionsGate CC on Saturday. I think it's a pretty get-able course although I have some holes like #2, #3, #7, #10, #13 and #14 to contend with.

I'm pretty much working on 3 things right.

1. Trunk Balance

2. Anterior Pelvic Tilt

3. Extending the left leg before impact.

I added the trunk balance work last night.

This photo explains it, showing Victor Rodriguez versus Jamie Sadlowski



The lines show where their trunk was at address. In order to have 'trunk balance', the outside lines of the trunk at the top of the swing should be raised higher than where the lines were at address. Sadlowski has trunk balance, Victor at that time does not.

This gets the pressure more on your heels which is necessary for better rotation in the downswing. It also allows you to 'drop' into the ground in transition and eventually 'push off the ground more.'

I can better visualize this in this video by Kelvin:



It looks to me that Watson and Holmes elevate their trunk into p4. The point of the video is to 'move the middle' instead of 'starting from the ground up.' So, it's about moving the pelvis first and that translates to the body below the pelvis moving and then using the ground to push off. However, I have to use the ground to help rotate. That's where I disagree with a lot of the Ground Reaction Force people, they want to use it to primarily 'jump' off the ground. I want to use it to primarily rotate and then 'jump' because I have to consider the club face rotation thru impact.

I started to notice some more pop on my shots, but started to hit them lower and it felt like my attack angle was getting steeper.

I was pointed out to this video by Monte Scheinblum which overall, I liked quite a bit.



One of the aspects I liked was the discussion of how to get more forward shaft lean. If you're using the body and head and moving them forward to create forward shaft lean, you can do it, but it can cause problems of too steep of an attack angle.

I don't think I ever thought of it in that sense and I think that makes some sense to one of my problems I had before of 'hanging back with my head.'



I was essentially moving my head forward from the top still to the middle still. Then my subconscious figured out "hey, if you want to hit this ball well, you have to move your head back more" and I can see the head moving back quite a bit on the bottom still.

The only thing I don't care for is the flicking of the wrist move because while it gives him forward shaft lean, it does so with a higher rate of closure. I think it will lead to 2-way misses. In the end, he's hitting the ball much further with better club speed and Spin Loft and that should help him (especially since he was hitting shanks), but when he tries to take it to another level and can't because he'll have to reconcile a 2-way miss.

As it applies to my swing, I never articulated that a steep attack angle comes from "getting forward shaft lean with your body and head" instead of "getting forward shaft lean with arms and hands."

So when I started working on trunk balance, I started to hit some hard shots with a lower trajectory and it felt like a steep attack angle. I think it was because my trunk was in a different position it drove my brain a little haywire and didn't understand what changes were being made as I went into transition and then into impact.

I eventually figured out the issue...my transition Anterior Pelvic Tilt was a bit off. I started to slide the pelvis forward which creates a "getting shaft lean with getting the body and head forward" move instead of getting the proper APT movement then rotating into impact and getting shaft lean with moving your arms and hands forward.

It doesn't quite surprise me anymore that Monte is able to produce that shaft lean by doing the opposite of what you would think. I've come to the conclusion that much of the time in golf getting a body part to move a certain way is done thru moving another body part the exact opposite way. That's why this game never makes any sense.

***

So, basically for me I'm focusing on trunk balance. Trying to feel like the right hip joint moves straight back thru right hip internal rotation and I simply keep rotating the right hip internally until the right hip is as far back as I can get it and the pressure on the heel of my right foot. The trunk will automatically raise a little when I do that.

Then I've focused my attention towards getting APT and visualize the tail bone going straight back in the process instead of sliding forward.

Then I retain the APT until I get the left leg to fully extend.

[meesh]

Very interesting read! Interesting to see how your views have changed over the years, I remember the ABS days. The slo motion practice is something I'm going to implement in my practice routine for sure.

[Richie3Jack]

Jul 19, 2015 20:16:11 GMT -5 meesh said:

Very interesting read! Interesting to see how your views have changed over the years, I remember the ABS days. The slow motion practice is something I'm going to implement in my practice routine for sure.

I'm thankful to all of the golf instructors I've worked with because I have felt like I've learned something valuable from each of them. It's like John Graham once said "in golf, truths are moments in time."

However, I do believe in slow motion practice to the full tilt. I tend to believe that with most instructional philosophies from M.O.R.A.D. to ABS to S&T, TGM, even Manzella's, etc...if the golfer does what the teacher prescribes it will work. Different philosophies will produce different club speeds, impact conditions and different ball flights, etc. But, if done correctly with *most* philosophies, it will work pretty well.

To me, golf instructors face two major issues:


1) Getting golfers to implement their prescribed mechanics. The most common complaint I hear from instructors, which is very true, is that students don't take enough time to practice. But, instructors I think need to understand that their students are not quite like them in most cases. They didn't grow up loving the game and do not have the mindset of wanting to just work on their game and play if they could. For myself, if I won the Powerball lottery I would be playing golf or practicing golf almost every single day. But for most golfers if they won the Powerball golf would not become a larger part of their life.

So, expecting golfers to practice more would be like a personal trainer expecting that their customers will exercise more. IMO, the key is to figure out a good practice regimen that they can do daily that works within their schedule. Research has shown that working 5-10 minutes a day on something will be better than working 1 hour a week on something.

Another issue with this is that people don't like to have to make a trip to the driving range. Especially if they are not a member because it costs money. It's time consuming and if the range is packed, it's a bit claustrophobic and in the end...it's going to take much more than 5-10 minutes.

So I think with proper slow motion practice, you can do it at home and get better. It won't be as effective as being able to go to the range and use proper slow motion practice. But, it's far better than going to the range every day without slow motion practice or going once a week.



2) Then from there, the golfer has to be able to take it from the range to the course. I find that golfers that can make the changes on the range are initially very happy with their progress even though they struggle with it on the golf course. They'll blame their nerves or something about their mentality. After a while though, they'll start to seek out new instruction because they become frustrated with how they hit the ball on the range and can't translate it to the course. They'll blame the mechanics which may not be the problem and then say "well, Instructor X's stuff works great on the range, but not on the golf course."

Obviously, there are some mechanics I feel that will provide inconsistent results. But, they should be able to transition to golf course play. You may be inconsistent in terms of ballstriking, but you should be able to shoot good scores here and there instead of it not translating at all to the golf course.

I think the slow motion practice helps with both factors. I think one needs to add a few more things to translating it to the course such as understanding 'good focus' and 'true confidence' along with self talk so they can continue to think more externally (the target and the shot to hit to that target) instead of internally (thinking about positions in the golf swing). But, it helps if you have good movement pattern training so you don't have swing thoughts and have started to unconsciously swing the club.

As Bum Phillips once said "coaching isn't about how much you know, it's about how much you can get the player to do." I understand the desire and benefits in reading wrist graphs and look at 3D mocap from every angle possible. But, it is looked at far too much and these instructors are favoring scientific knowledge over the actual performance of their students.

And when it comes to performance, most coaches think it's all about saying something in a simple manner and getting that right keyword that will make the lightbulb go on. That is as big of a fallacy as anything out there.

It's really a shame to see this stuff go on.









3JACK

[Richie3Jack]

I played 54 holes this weekend. I remember when I was a kid I would play at least 45 holes a day and walk all of them. Of course, back then courses were about 800 yards shorter in length and the tee boxes were right next to the previous green so the walking was a lot less.

I shot 73 (+1) at ChampionsGate, 71 (-1) at BayTree National and 71 (-1) at Duran Golf Club. I hit 36/54 GIR.

The conditions were not easy. It was windy and it rained for about 45 minutes at ChampionsGate. BayTree was windy and had a 30 minute rain. And then I got delayed for about 1-hour with rain and wind at Duran.

I struggled the first 12 holes with my swing at ChampionsGate. But, I came around nicely around hole 13 and hit some big drives with a 305 yard drive on #16, a 310 yard drive on #17 and 325 yard drive on #18.

I had no business shooting 71 at BayTree. I didn't swing it well and it was messy out there, but I hit a lot of timely great shots. I then grabbed something to eat and saw that Duran wasn't busy and played 18 more and after the first 6 holes I started to hit it really well.

I think the big cog in the machine for me is that I tend to slide a bit before I get into Anterior Pelvic Tilt. Some can get away with it, but for me if that tail bone isn't moving straight back using APT after P4 (and then rotating away from the target)...I'm cooked. It's Slide City. It's not always a bad shot, but there is noticeably less power. It's fine if I'm on a 400 yard par-4 and I just need to hit one 280 yards and find the fairway.

I also tend to think that the APT problems usually occur when it gets windy out. It's just one of those obstacles that sends my brain into survival mode and I go with what I'm accustomed to do ing.

The other thing I started to visual on the range and started to do a good job of transitioning that into feel on the course is feeling like I'm almost a submarine pitcher or a stone skipper.

Reading an interview on Golf Digest with Re-Max Long Drive winner, Jeff Flagg, made me think about this more:



Kelvin has pointed this out several times that it's like turning a double play or skipping a stone like world champion stone skipper Kurt Steiner:



Or like Dan Quisenberry.



But, the tricky parts I found is that for starters, unlike Quisenberry and Steiner, you have to get left leg extension instead of having the left leg in flexion. Ironically, the baseball hitters do this so well.



The other difficult part is that unlike Quisenberry and Steiner, there is a propensity to want to get the right shoulder into internal rotation instead of keeping the external rotation. I started to feel that type of motion, but pretend like I'm trying to skip a stone that will curve to the right as it skips.

This is part of where I disagree with Flagg in his interview. I think he's applying it only to pure power because as a Re-Max guy, he can get away with only hitting 1 drive in the grid. Also, he's 6'6" tall and weighs 250 pounds. He is roughly 6 inches taller and 70 pounds more than Sadlowski. But, his thoughts were interesting to read about nonetheless.







3JACK

[Richie3Jack]

I didn't get to hit balls on Monday because of the rain. I got to hit balls yesterday, but it's going to be iffy throughout the rest of the week because of the forecasted rain we are supposed to receive.

I was watching this video from Mike Hebron and put it on my blog:



I've been using the slow motion practice and try to use the random practice, but sometimes I slip with the random practice and start getting into using the same target.

I think with my style of slow motion practice where when I get to full speed and hitting balls I then alternate between that and a slow motion swing provides some randomness to my practice, but it's not quite good enough.

So, last night I started to really focus on using random targets and I could see where the brain starts to do goofy things to you when you change the target. If I aimed well to the right, my tendency was to slide forward quite a bit. It's a different sense of awareness at the top of the swing and how the pelvis needs to tilt for me when I aim well right.

When I aimed at a target well left, the tendency was to not get enough extension of the left leg.

All part of the process of learning new movement patterns correctly.

[Richie3Jack]

This weekend was a pretty good one for golf as with the rain I haven't been able to get much practice in and I still hit the ball respectably well.

I shot 76 (+4) at Bella Collina which plays to 7,500+ yards and has a 77.3 index rating. I basically couldn't putt and screwed up one hole where I took a triple bogey because I aimed at the wrong spot and got some bad breaks. Then I doubled the 8th hole which is a 510 yard par-4 that we were playing in the pouring rain. But, I hit the last 10 GIR and finished with 14/18 GIR overall. I just don't see how I could have done that even a year ago when I was hitting the ball well.

Then I played Metrowest where I shot 73 (+1) and still couldn't putt well and hit 12/18 GIR with very heavy rough (probably the heaviest rough in all of Orlando right now).

I hit the ball well off the tee with nice distance and I would say my play from my 2-hybrid to my 8-iron is the strongest part of my game right now. My control with the irons and hybrids is flat-out excellent at this juncture.

One of the things I've been focusing on in practice is to not move that head forward as Monte Scheinblum discusses here.



Things may move a little forward from P4 to about P5-ish when the body is rotating to square. But once, that happens I don't want the body or the head moving laterally if I can help it. I want rotation. But, I'm already rotating before I get to that point. It's funny that Brandon DeVore was hitting shanks as I would move the head forward (and then well back) and would hit the occasional shank when I couldn't get my head to move back quick enough.

I'm hoping either today or tomorrow to get into Kelvin's fascia training. I think I'm pretty good with the swing development and need to send KM a video soon so that we can over it, but I want to get into the fascia training to really take things to the next level as well.

[Richie3Jack]

So, I was working on my swing last night and started to notice a few things that I just didn't think about in this sense before.

Mainly it has to do with my old nemesis, left leg extension.

There's a lot of discussion within the biomechanics people of raising the belt buckle on the downswing. They want you to push off the ground and 'jump' and that adds more power. While it is critical to raise the belt buckle for power, the fact is that most every good player does it.

Here's my friend, Brian Gay in the downswing. And he was swinging well here as he won this event.



I think the disconnect for me was that I was afraid of jump-stalling that I didn't get the belt buckle to raise. But in reality, the belt buckle should raise because that will come with left leg extension.

Here's Lucas Wald doing it.



It's tough to tell from the angles presented, but I actually believe Lucas has less upward movement of the belt buckle despite hitting a driver. And Lucas is roughly 17 mph faster and shorter than Brian (common fallacy is Brian is a tiny guy, he's actually a legit 5'10" person). But the rotation of the pelvis is completely different (although it should be with a driver versus an iron). Lucas' left hip is moving back behind him and away from the target. The left hip is behind the left ankle.

So I started to conceptualize this as using rotation to create the 'jump' (move the belt buckle up) instead of flexing the knees and jumping as much as you can. We also don't actively flex the knees, the anterior pelvic tilt in transition creates the knee flex (and dual hip ER) for us.

Because it was a bit new to me, I had a few jump stall issues, but I started to get the hang of it quite well with more slow motion practice.

The only new thing that would pop up, and I haven't seen Kelvin discuss it much, is that I think it's possible to get into lateral bend and then take yourself out of lateral bend.

Here's lateral bend:



I think what happens to me is that there are times when I will be getting into lateral bend nicely and then that spine starts to straighten out of it. It almost feels like a 'coming out of it' type of swing.

So, I started working on using rotation to move the belt buckle up while sustaining the lateral bend and not only was I hitting some powerful shots, the curvature was different. It was more straight to small draw instead of straight to small fade. And the trajectory was better. It was high, but not too high. I tend to go a bit too low or too high.

I think I started to figure out some of the ball flights and the corresponding mechanics.

Too low = too much slide

Too high = under-flip release

Too much face = not enough left leg extension.

Starts too far left = lost external rotation of right shoulder

Start too far right = slide with early extension.

[Richie3Jack]

I like what Mike Hebron once said "golf is not a hard game, it's an inconsistent game."

I was working on getting left leg extension earlier in the downswing. I tend to keep too much flexion at impact and don't get the extension until after impact and that inhibits the rotation in my swing.

Sadlowski does it so well:



What I was working on was using the extension & internal rotation of the left hip raise my belt buckle into impact. I can get a better sense of doing it correctly when I raise the belt buckle.

The problem was that my Anterior Pelvic Tilt in transition started to go to shit.

I could easily see the issue with all of the studying of the brain and movement pattern training and skill acquisition.

Since I was introducing a new piece to my swing (left leg extension by raising the belt buckle) that was causing a piece that I've just started to learn (APT in transition without sliding) to come unglued.

In the past, I would have junked the left leg extension in fear of hitting the ball worse. Or I would have done the opposite...just kept focusing on the left leg extension.

Now, I understand the issue. That new piece is an obstacle and it was causing me to revert to some of my old habits.

Once again, it's much like the backwards bicycle video. Once something gets in your way like a pothole, pedestrian or somebody honking their horn, it's likely to throw your mechanics askew and you're going to likely revert back to your old mechanics.

Armed with that knowledge, I continually went back to slow motion training.  The slow motion training does a few key things:

1.  You can work on far more things at one time.

2.  It allows for more ingrained repetition.

3.  It allows for the golfer to not have swing thoughts in their actual swing because they are sensing the movement they need to make instead of having actual swing thoughts.

4.  It allows the golfer to figure out how to get into the positions they want to get in if they are paying attention.

5.  It allows for easier self correction.

#4 and #5 are most pertinent to this journal entry.

#4 is how I figured out how to get the left leg into extension, sooner.

#5 is what went on yesterday as I wasn't hitting the ball well and started to determine that I was starting to slide the pelvis and early extend a little when I focused on the left leg extension.

It's kind of like typing in the sense that if I mis-type the word 'Augusta' as 'Aygusta', I can almost immediately sense when I type the letter 'y' and my brain knows that key stroke was incorrect.  That's what was happening yesterday, I could sense almost immediately that something was awry, even on good shots.  The problem is that I can't see the 'typo' like I can in 'Aygusta.' 

By the end of the day I was hitting it superbly and couldn't complain at all.

I also started to practice some pitch shots.  A lot of the technique I learned from Kelvin as it's part of the Rumford/Lundqvist technique that is becoming more and more popular.  James Ridyard has been teaching it as well.  The main concept is you're trying to hit the ball lower and generate more spin.  That way the ball lands softly and spins and stops quickly.  Instead of hitting higher flop shots and having it land at such an upright angle that it stops immediately.  To me, I like the concept of lower launch with more spin because it's always difficult to control the distance on those high flops.  Here I can get better distance and directional control and let the spin rate do all of the work. 

I was really starting to get these down on the practice green.  I first worked on trying to take the longest divot I could imagine.  Then I worked on feeling like I was aiming for the equator of the ball.  Then I felt like I was aiming to brush the grass behind the ball. 

In the end, I found trying to hit the equator of the ball worked best for me and I ended the day with my best pitch shot of the bunch with me merely brushing the grass, getting the perfect trajectory with a ton of spin and watching it take a hop, then a small hop and stop right there...inches from the pin.

[Richie3Jack]

I've been trying to keep my practice focused on the same things day-to-day, but I find myself trying new things out almost every day. It's been working well as I can't complain about how I'm hitting the ball overall. But, I still get a little 'above the plane' on some swings.

One of the things I've been working on with the practice is what was prescribed by Mike Hebron, moving the ball forward and back in my stance on shots. Keep the randomness going besides trying to hit different ball flights and different targets. I've found that I still have some issues with flighting the ball low into the wind. I can do it with more of a M.O.RA.D.. swing, but I don't hit the ball as far with that swing. The good part with that swing is that I'm still very effective and I like to use that when I'm in between clubs as well. But, if I get a 2-club wind and would need a 5-iron with the M.O.R.A.D. swing which would translate to a 6 or 7-iron with this swing (if I could keep the ball low), that's an important difference in club. I had this issue at a course called Martin Downs on Sunday and I tried to use the KM swing with a 6-iron and move the ball back in my stance. It didn't work. But, a big reason is that I don't practice moving the ball forward or back in my stance. So, I started to do that and started to hit the shots better. But, the main point is that I am doing this to also ingrain my new swing mechanics better. I have also started to work on purposely hitting more draws on the range. The straight ball, baby fade is more of my stock shot, but I need to start hitting more draws on purpose on the range just in case I need one on the course. I can hit the draw on purpose, but I wouldn't say I have command over hitting the draw.

I had some light bulbs go on for me last night on the range. I still think my major issue for me is I sort of get too much pelvic slide, but I think it's sometimes a function of just purely getting pelvic slice and early extension and at other times it is about not getting the left leg into extension soon enough. I started to think of when I start to square up my body at p5.



I then use the left heel and 'chi line' as a pivot point into the ball.

2.bp.blogspot.com/-hTYa_NVxpG4/VcDYFiB8NXI/AAAAAAAACIE/tOpwhfZ6-Rk/s1600/bubba2.png

Bubba does it quite well, except he uses the ball of the lead foot to pivot around and that's difficult for me to do.

Sadlowski does it wonderfully.

I also started to see how it was so easy for guys like Sadlowski to arrive at that impact position.  If you get that pelvis rotating like they do and get the shoulders more vertical like they do, you almost have no choice but to have a flex right arm with a nice amount of forward shaft lean and the lead elbow pointing more at the target rather than at the stomach.

Lastly, I have been working on getting the Anterior Pelvic Tilt correctly in transition. I have a tendency to kick the left knee out towards the target in transition as that is what I was taught for years to do.



It's a classic case of 'starting the downswing from the ground up' instruction instead of starting the downswing with the pelvis. And I think it is such a critical error that people tend to make in the golf swing because it can throw off sequencing, it promotes the slide, early extension and one of the big killers in a swing...Right Pelvic Tilt.

I think Lucas Wald has a transition that is much more effective. He keeps the hips in internal rotation and then gets into APT as his transition move. You can see how his left knee stays more 'kicked in' during transition instead of 'kicking it out towards the target' as so many ground up instructors prescribe.



I've tried a few different concepts to prevent the left knee from kicking out. Oddly enough, I have never really thought about sustaining the left knee in transition. I've though more of hip rotation, trying to pull the left hip back, trying to immediately move the tailbone back, etc. But, last night I focused more on the knee as I went into APT and it worked much better and I was able to then visualize the left heel and chi line as a pivot point into and thru impact.

So, I'll see how that goes for the rest of the week.

[Richie3Jack]

Last night showed me another example of why learning new mechanics is difficult. I was still working on making sure the left leg gets extended and using the left heel and chi line as a ‘pivot point’, but wasn’t quite getting it. After a while I started to notice that my sacrum (tailbone area) was not moving correctly as it was not rotating back in the opposite direction from the target. Bubba does it so well:



It is very easy to get fixated on pieces A, B and C and see it work out only to realize you’re missing out on pieces D and E to consistently ingrain those mechanics properly. Or even more troubling, you get parts A, C and E, but are missing out on parts B and D.

The good thing is when I focus on the left knee in slow motion practice swings, I have developed a better sense of not kicking the left knee out. The key now is to transition from not getting that left knee to kick out…then into getting the left leg extension with left hip internal rotation. I think Mike Trout does it perfectly in his baseball swing.






I think at this point I’m getting it probably 50% of the time down nicely, but struggling to figure It out because there is some missing piece that I don’t quite understand.

[jnaturally]

The posts regarding practice and learning really caught my attention. The comparison between having swing thoughts and thinking about pressing buttons while playing games also made a lot of sense. Do tour players play golf without swing thoughts?

What do you think are the key differences between what KM teaches and darome? Are there any important similarities?

[Richie3Jack]

Aug 7, 2015 4:30:37 GMT -5 jnaturally said:

The posts regarding practice and learning really caught my attention. The comparison between having swing thoughts and thinking about pressing buttons while playing games also made a lot of sense. Do tour players play golf without swing thoughts?

I know some that do not have swing thoughts, but most of them do have swing thoughts. Bubba is the classic example of not having swing thoughts. I don't think Calcavecchia has swing thoughts from when I talked to him a year ago in a casual conversation.

I've talked to a few of the older guys that I grew up watching when I was a tyke like Al Geiberger and they didn't seem to have swing thoughts. I really don't think the swing thought thing became prevalent until Leadbetter (it's not solely his fault) became a prominent teacher. I'm not trying to knock Leadbetter in this, but when he came along as a teacher the philosophy of golf changed to where a good golf MUST have a teacher and if you're a Tour player, you MUST work with that teacher week in and week out otherwise you're going to be left behind.

So, that's why I think swing thoughts became more prevalent...the philosophy shifted that the teacher was supposed to guide you around and you had to listen to what the teacher said and that turned into thinking internally (swing positions) instead of thinking externally (thinking about the target and the shot you want to hit to that target).

If you ever get to watch rounds from the 80's and earlier on YouTube, notice how the players are never focusing on their swing positions in their pre-shot routine. It was just some natural practice swings to loosen up the joints, find the target, some waggles and fire when ready.

What do you think are the key differences between what KM teaches and darome? Are there any important similarities?

M.O.R.A.D. is more centered, but not much more. It's far more away from the target in the backswing than S&T, a common mistake that people make with M.O.R.A.D. that they think it has the same backswing tilts and S&T...it doesn't. I really don't think Lucas Wald moves his head that much even by M.O.R.A.D. standards in the backswing. The head will move up and down in M.O.R.A.D. as well as swivel (another common fallacy for those that don't know), but the lateral movement is something they don't like. Lucas' head doesn't really move much at all laterally in the backswing, but it does move up. However, somebody like Victor Rodriguez and John Oda have much more lateral movement of the head. I think in the end, KM is more willing to accept lateral movement of the head.

KM's swing philosophy has the hips more level at the top of the swing. Pretty much every teaching philosophy has Left Pelvic Tilt at p4. However, if you watch Mac, he has LPT at p4, but not nearly as much as many M.O.R.A.D. golfers do and not nearly as much as S&T guys have.

Lastly with the backswing, the lead arm is flatter in M.O.R.A.D. as it is in line with the shoulder plane (preferably). KM wants it more upright, kind of a 'reaching for the sky' like Nicklaus did. There's benefits to both, I believe. You're likely to generate more power with the hands higher because they have more room to travel. With the lead arm on the shoulder plane, there's less compensation to return the hand path where you want it.

Lately, I've started to see instructors take notice of Kelvin's work, even though some won't admit to it. A lot more discussion of avoiding right pelvic tilt in the downswing now when nobody talked about it before. And now right lateral bend is starting to become en vogue.

M.O.R.A.D. teaches lateral bend as more of a means to avoid coming over the top. KM teaches it as part of the spine engine theory to power the body motion to drive rotation.

M.O.R.A.D. splits the release actions into CP versus CF whereas KM splits it into the umbrellas of flip release, roll release, drive hold and of course...flip-roll release.

Lastly, off the top of my head M.O.R.A.D. wants the left shoulder low for as long as possible in the downswing and the left knee in line with the left ankle. KM wants the left shoulder higher than the right shoulder rather quickly in the downswing and trying to keep the left hip behind the left ankle with the left leg in full extension at impact (in order to aid rotation of the pelvis and deliver the club head into the ball).

Essentially, we have rotation and lateral motion. Rotation produces a leftward path and lateral motion produces more of a rightward path. M.O.R.A.D. has quite a bit of lateral lower body motion and counters that with rotational upper body motion. It does have more rotation of the lower body than S&T.

KM has rotation of the lower body and more lateral motion of the upper body. One can overdo the 'underneath' motion of the upper body and there needs to be some rotation of that upper body, but it's basically the opposite premise of M.O.R.A.D. in that sense.

Also, KM is the only person I've ever heard discuss Anterior Pelvic Tilt in the downswing. I'm sure other teachers will come around to learning about APT soon.



As far as similarities, the release style is basically the same. What KM calls a drive-hold release could be referred to as a slow overtaking rate combined with a slow rate of closure.

Here's Mac and Lucas, both with irons. Pretty similar release styles:



Both groups like a strong strip style. Although M.O.R.A.D. is more inclined to tell you that too strong of a grip is not a good thing. I have a super-duper strong grip...one that would make Paul Azinger blush...but it works for me and I hit the ball very straight. Although the M.O.R.A.D. people would be inclined to believe that a super strong grip like mine would lead to hitting cuts...but, that's not really an issue for me. I hit it very straight or with a small fade.

Other than that, both styles are very much about utilizing rotational power. Just KM is more into lower body rotation and M.O.R.A.D. is more into upper body rotation. At P5, M.O.R.A.D. wants the hips open to the target. At P6 the hips should be well open. And if you look at Mac's p7 (the model) versus pretty much any other swing philosophy outside of KM's, his pelvis is far more rotated.

That in part is what drew me into KM's teaching, there were core philosophies that were very similar to M.O.R.A.D.







3JACK