|
Post by Richie3Jack on Jun 24, 2010 22:22:49 GMT -5
How heavy is that lie/loft machine?
3JACK
|
|
|
Post by cloran on Jun 25, 2010 6:13:23 GMT -5
The machine itself, 10 lbs...
The steel stand the guy had made for it to sit on... 75 lbs at least, and bulky. It has a spot to stand on, etc...
I was in the garage until 12:30 am last night playing around with it. I ended up dialing in all the lofts as well on the '58 Hogans. The specs were not that consistent. The 8i and 9i were only 2* apart in loft... no wonder I was hitting them about the same distance, lol.
I may strengthen their lofts a few degrees, too. We'll see...
It was so much fun doing it myself. And easy! I don't understand why it would take someone a week to get my clubs bent, just to hear them argue that going that flat would break them. Rediculous.
|
|
|
Post by cloran on Jun 25, 2010 8:12:15 GMT -5
I took the newly bent Hogans to the range this morning. A couple of things I realized:
1. Flatter helps. I've said this before (Richie too), but in the previous few days I had been hitting the Hogans with their standard lie. A lot of misses left AND right. Today I didn't miss anything left (when trying to swing left from pitch elbow). My CF swing would sometimes produce a pull, but nothing that wouldn't be just off the green. However, the CF swing also produced more fades (power fades actually).
2. I have to get to pitch elbow to have a CP release. There's no two ways about it. I can't take my old punch elbow swing and try to CP it... it doesn't work.
3. In order to consistently allow my pivot to drive the swing I have to SLOW DOWN! After a few shanks mixed with some good shots I took a break. I went back to my wedge. I was hitting the 110 yard green 10/10 times, but with a noticeably smoother/slower/CPer/lefter swing. Taking my old back swing and tranistion, then trying to get into pitch elbow was darn near impossible. There's just no time. I'd get WAY out of sink, timing lost completely. Taking a slower back swing and transition gave me more time to get ino pitch elbow. Then I was able to swing left, producing solid strikes. With NO loss in distance.
I was aiming at a 159 yard flag with my 7i. My rapid back swing, transition, and follow through would hit the ball 159; but with not that much consistency. With the CP swing (which felt like I was swinging 1/2 speed... really slow to me) the 7i went 159, but higher and noticeably straighter with a better sound at impact.
|
|
|
Post by Richie3Jack on Jun 25, 2010 10:20:04 GMT -5
I’m officially jealous. I could fit one of those in my apartment and have room to spare, but getting it up 2 flights of stairs won’t be fun. It’s something I have been considering, that’s for sure. I have found a clubmaker who bends my clubs for me and has no issue doing so. It helps he is actually related to Ben Hogan himself. But it’s about a 45 minute drive from my home and 20 minutes from work, and he doesn’t work weekends.
You’re really hit on the points I’ve made about my experiences with ABS. Flat lie angles are mandatory. Too many do not understand it. Not only will you need them flat to hit the ball square if you achieve the ‘4:30 Line’, but over time it helps reinforce the flat downswing for the golfer. Upright clubs would keep reinforcing a more upright downswing.
I’m amazed how many golfers and instructors ignore the importance of the 1-way miss. I always felt it was important, but didn’t know how to achieve it. ABS provides a way for it. Believe me, it’s something I’ve heard quite a few PGA Tour and mini-tour pros talk about. They simply cannot afford the 2-way miss.
Pitch elbow in ABS is pretty much mandatory for almost every student. It does so many good things like getting you on the 4:30 line, preventing you from throwing your arms at the ball, providing a way to fire the hands, etc.
I’ve made some big improvements in swinging left and CP releasing it. What worked for me is from P3 to P4, I feel like I’m turning the torso and the shoulders and bring the hands along with me low and as far left as they possibly can go. BUT, the bigger key is as I turn my torso/shoulders, I feel likely I’m turning the torso almost downward and trying to keep the left shoulder as low as I can for as long as I can. Then you hit P4 and your torso cannot rotate anymore and you just lift up into PV5.
3JACK
|
|
|
Post by TeddyIrons on Jun 25, 2010 10:31:28 GMT -5
Interesting stuff as I've played around with similar thoughts and had similar issues.
Isn't it amazing how slow you can swing and still hit the ball the same distance? Recently at the range I did a test and took as slow a backswing as possible, and did the same on the downswing, and hit the ball the exact same distance as my normal swing.
Just shows that my normal swing isn't up to much! :-)
Edit: This was in reply to cloran's post
|
|
|
Post by cloran on Jun 25, 2010 10:43:14 GMT -5
Teddy,
Absolutely. You hit the nail on the head.
I was just listening to Jerry Pate being interiewed on Sirius. He was talking about his slow tempo. His father always told him that a slow tempo will remove a lot of flaws and allow you to get away with more...
When I was taking those slow swings I was able to get to pitch elbow, sit down through impact, and hit the ball with my pivot. When I would speed it up even just a little bit I'd end up eiter: 1. standing up through impact (goat humping) 2. losing my pitch elbow 3. throwing my hands at the ball and CF releasing it.
I was looking at Lag's spec sheet again this morning and he says something on there that I've read 100 times but obviously never paid attention to:
"I am a firm believer in heavier clubs because they put more feel in our hands and do wonders to inhibit over acceleration which is the #1 swing killer."
The #1 swing killer!!!! I need to pay attention.
|
|
|
Post by cloran on Jun 25, 2010 10:49:48 GMT -5
Richie,
If you come across one grab it! They can get quite expensive, but even at higher prices they are well worth it. Just being able to do it yourself without having to wait is priceless... plus you can "tinker" with your gear.
The guy I bought it off bent two sets for me at $6 per club... I paid $250 for the machine/stand/and bending bar. I'll recoup that cost in no time. Not to mention as I get a little more comfortable I can start bending clubs for other people and actually making money if I want to.
So now I have a "vintage" swing weight scale (that works just like any other scale accept that it cost me $35 not $150) and the loft/lie machine. I just need to build my work bench and I'm in business, lol.
|
|
|
Post by pavaveda on Jun 25, 2010 10:53:57 GMT -5
Guys, do you ever feel like you need to fight your hands from coming out too far in your downswing? And by fight, I mean actively try to keep your hands closer to your body from (ABS) P3 to P4? I notice that if I do that, a lot of things fall into place and the results are crisper contact (not fat) and more distance. If I don't, I can feel the hands running away from me due to CF and the ball striking deteriorates quickly.
This might have a lot to do with the heavier swing weights (D6) as well. And I'm mostly talking about longer irons. I practice a lot with my 3 iron.
|
|
|
Post by cloran on Jun 25, 2010 11:01:32 GMT -5
This is what I've found regarding "close hands."
If I consciously fight to keep them close I CAN hit the ball well, but there are still inconsistencies.
If I get to pitch elbow and hit the ball with my pivot (nothing else, just pivot) then I keep my hands close without thinking about it AND make good contact much more consistently.
|
|
|
Post by Richie3Jack on Jun 25, 2010 11:09:34 GMT -5
When I was in high school, my good friend started to do club stuff in his paren'ts garage as a way to experiment with equipment and keep his equipment sharp. He used to do the labor for me for free which was really nice. In the end, he wound up making some decent money at the age of 14, just doing some repair and install work for about 20 people in his free time.
pavaveda - yes, I fight that all of the time. In fact, on the ABS Web site, one of the things Lag says is that you need to 'fight for your right to stay on plane.'
It's almost like a game of tug of war in that sense with CF try to pull the hands and club in one direction while I'm tring to pull then in a different direction.
3JACK
|
|
|
Post by pavaveda on Jun 25, 2010 12:38:48 GMT -5
pavaveda - yes, I fight that all of the time. In fact, on the ABS Web site, one of the things Lag says is that you need to 'fight for your right to stay on plane.' It's almost like a game of tug of war in that sense with CF try to pull the hands and club in one direction while I'm tring to pull then in a different direction. This is what I've found regarding "close hands." If I consciously fight to keep them close I CAN hit the ball well, but there are still inconsistencies. If I get to pitch elbow and hit the ball with my pivot (nothing else, just pivot) then I keep my hands close without thinking about it AND make good contact much more consistently. Thanks guys. I know what you're saying cloran, I realized last night while videoing some drills for Lag that I'm probably not getting into enough of a pitch elbow which I think will help with not having to consciously fight CF as much. But then again, like Richie said, it's probably always going to be some kind of 'fight' and what will vary is the amount that I have to actually think about it.
|
|
|
Post by cloran on Jun 25, 2010 12:57:34 GMT -5
For sure, Pava... and the heavier the gear the harder you'll (we) have to fight the CF no doubt.
Something that helps me (a little, lol) is making a back swing with my right elbow as close to my side as possible and not letting it move much. I can get a good shoulder turn, but keep my hands close and low (and when I work on my wrist hinge I can get the shaft flatter, too). I think Lag covers this in M5 or M6. Making a good turn without moving the hands too far.
All it does is allow me to get into pitch elbow. If I try to take a swing where my right elbow moves too far away from my side at the top I can't get it back into the slot... I just can't. I can't do the "gravity drop" or "de-weighting" thing to let the club drop and get my elbow in front of my hip... but making a turn with it close helps.
And after this morning I realize what REALLY helps is making that turn slowly (under control) and returning to impact just as smooth... and perhaps most importantly: Letting my pivot deliver the club, not my arms. It goes against years of CFing and my natural "hit" instincts, but by God it works!
Slow back, Slow down, PIVOT ONLY.
Sounds easy right, lol?!
|
|
|
Post by cloran on Jul 10, 2010 12:55:41 GMT -5
This may be gross to some, but it's a sign of good things for me.
I usually do my range work after or before work and in my dress shoes... after many many range sessions I had built up a callus on the tip of my big toe (right foot) at about 11 o'clock. This was telling me that my footwork sucked! I needed my right foot to get less on the toes and more on the arch... I was standing UP through impact, etc.
After working on it hard and slowing down my tempo I succeeded in moving my callus to the 8 o'clock position on my big toe, lol. Consequently I've had some really good sessions.
So there you have it! I moved my callus and I'm proud of it!!!!
|
|
|
Post by cloran on Jul 26, 2010 18:10:10 GMT -5
I've been suffering from some nerve problems in my left hand (been dealing with it for a while now), and it's getting worse. Numbness all buy my pinkie finger... not good for golf, lol. I'm taking it easy on the range as a result and I have been working on short game stuff at the driving range.
Took some videos today:
Putting 5, 10, 15 feet
|
|
|
Post by cloran on Jul 26, 2010 18:12:32 GMT -5
Short chip from deep rough. I came up 10 feet short on all 3 shots, It was hard to tell just how they were going to come out. It was thick and deep... you can't see my feet, lol. Chips from the fringe.
|
|