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Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 11, 2010 12:03:46 GMT -5
Take this swing video of John Erickson's and use a swing analyser program to advance the video frame-by-frame at the start of the transition from backswing to downswing. www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh5wZ0J8rXUIf you do not see that his pelvis moves first - before his upper torso starts to rotate - then I am baffled. He may not teach this "swing feature" in his ABS teaching program, but it is part-and-parcel of his personal swing action. I wish I had his level of hula hula flexibility. Jeff. |
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Post by gmbtempe on Feb 11, 2010 14:29:16 GMT -5
How can you have a sit down move with no pelvis movement? I think though rather than a aggressive pelvic rotation left he is shifting his weight, the left hip starts to open left but the dominant feature is a large sit down move.  |
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Post by Richie3Jack on Feb 11, 2010 14:38:42 GMT -5
I think he teaches the golfer to bend the right knee on the start down which creates a sit-down position and that along with the Module 1 training help create that position he is in. I don't think he says 'actively start the downswing by rotating the pelvis.' From what I've gathered so far, at P6 (which he calls P3) he doesn't want open hips because he wants to use a lot of hip, torso and shoulder rotation thru the impact interval. If you have those hips open at P6, I think his belief is that you will not have any room to keep pivoting thru and well past impact.
I have noticed much more of a sit down move just by incorporating some of Module 1 into my swing. It almost happens automatically because I'm going to pitch elbow and getting on the 4:30 line.
I'm sure with Lag the pelvis moves first, but I don't think it's an 'aggressive' rotation of the pelvis. I also think that this may be a part where John and darome disagree. From my limited experience with darome, they want an immediate pivoting of the body on the downswing and want a close to open body at P6.
3JACK
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Post by TeddyIrons on Feb 11, 2010 16:12:44 GMT -5
Take this swing video of John Erickson's and use a swing analyser program to advance the video frame-by-frame at the start of the transition from backswing to downswing. www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh5wZ0J8rXUIf you do not see that his pelvis moves first - before his upper torso starts to rotate - then I am baffled. He may not teach this "swing feature" in his ABS teaching program, but it is part-and-parcel of his personal swing action. I wish I had his level of hula hula flexibility. Jeff. Jeff, his pelvis does move before his upper torso, BUT, you have to differentiate between cause and effect. In this case, the cause is the sit down, the effect is the hips return to square. Try this yourself - take a backswing and then sit down, see what happens to your pelvis. I'm doing this myself now in my own swing - I'm actually quite amazed at how I now see myself on video - my lower body appears to be rotating hard left when I do this, and transferring weight to the left side, and yet none of this is the cause, because the cause is the little sit down and the pelvis follows this move. Believe me, I know the difference between rotating my hips hard left, and sitting down. The way JE teaches this does not require a lot of flexibility - I'm athletic, but I am not at all flexible. You can analzye the video as much as you want, but that will not necessarily clarify what the actual cause is. Unless of course, you believe JE is teaching something that he is not really doing himself, and despite that we students that are following his teaching also end up with the same move and the same look, and still the cause is an active hip turn? I don't think so. How can you have a sit down move with no pelvis movement? I think though rather than a aggressive pelvic rotation left he is shifting his weight, the left hip starts to open left but the dominant feature is a large sit down move. Yes, the dominant move is the sit down, the hips follow that move. You'll also notice from your image of JE that his upper torso has rotated 90 degress, and his hips 45 degrees (more or less). That does not suggest to me a flexible or prominent turn of the hips. He fires the hips later. |
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 11, 2010 16:33:39 GMT -5
Teddy
I believe that the "sit-down" move involves a ~45 degrees rotation from the end-backswing position. I also believe that this pelvic rotation is starting to happen in JE's swing before his upper torso starts to move. That may merely reflect his level of hula hula flexibility and it may not be deliberate choice.
Most traditional golfers have ~135 degrees of pelvic rotation from the end-backswing to the finish position. So, there is still room for another 90 degrees of pelvic rotation after the "sit down" position. I personally do not believe that this additional 90 degrees of rotation contributes much to swing power, but I suspect that JE-followers believe otherwise. I would be interested in a logical explanation to support that "belief".
Jeff.
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Post by TeddyIrons on Feb 12, 2010 2:01:55 GMT -5
Teddy I believe that the "sit-down" move involves a ~45 degrees rotation from the end-backswing position. I also believe that this pelvic rotation is starting to happen in JE's swing before his upper torso starts to move. That may merely reflect his level of hula hula flexibility and it may not be deliberate choice. Jeff, I agree that the sit-down will cause the hips to return to square. This will create pivot lag - the upper torso will lag this hip movement, and the arms will lag the torso. This can create the sequencing we need which is why I like the sit down so much, although it's not easy to incorporate into our swings. The more flexible somebody is, the more, I guess, the torso will lag the hips. This also assumes that the golfer is not actively engaging his upper body at this point. The point I'm making is that it's a whole different feeling and movement to just transfer weight to the left side and turn the hips, leaving the Torso behind - that movement is much harder to do IMO. Most traditional golfers have ~135 degrees of pelvic rotation from the end-backswing to the finish position. So, there is still room for another 90 degrees of pelvic rotation after the "sit down" position. I personally do not believe that this additional 90 degrees of rotation contributes much to swing power, but I suspect that JE-followers believe otherwise. I would be interested in a logical explanation to support that "belief". Jeff. I think you're getting into the 5th accumulator discussion and I'm too much of a novice to explain it. However, I do believe that the 90 degrees of rotation from the hips square position does influence power. When I look at a swing sequence of Sergio Garcia, his hips rotate a lot from the moment his club is at the last parallel (P3 in JE's terms) and impact. I believe much of his power, and his ability to delay the release of his hands is to do with this late and powerful hip movement. Therefore I believe that the hips fire, and do not just clear out of the way, in a powerful golf swing, especially for those on the elbow plane. |
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joec
'88 Apex Redlines
Posts: 161
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Post by joec on Feb 12, 2010 15:53:16 GMT -5
on golfwrx, under swing fitness thread, jeff evans and chuck evans are beginning to show some trackman data thas may be of use. the title is..............trackman
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joec
'88 Apex Redlines
Posts: 161
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Post by joec on Feb 12, 2010 16:33:21 GMT -5
on golfwrx, there is a new thread bly jeff evans and chuck evans regarding trackman results thast may become interesting. it is titled.................trackman it is under swing/fitness.
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Post by gmbtempe on Feb 12, 2010 17:33:34 GMT -5
on golfwrx, under swing fitness thread, jeff evans and chuck evans are beginning to show some trackman data thas may be of use. the title is..............trackman Chuck Evans, what is his handle in that thread? edit: ok I got it you mean in the videos...my bad |
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Post by gmbtempe on Feb 12, 2010 17:53:36 GMT -5
on golfwrx, there is a new thread bly jeff evans and chuck evans regarding trackman results thast may become interesting. it is titled.................trackman it is under swing/fitness. That is really awesome stuff, visual equivalents explained. Here are the videos |
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