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Post by Richie3Jack on Feb 1, 2011 22:10:04 GMT -5
3Jack I don't see the relevance of your experience at the show with alignment at all. What did they use to verify alignment? A laser. Take a look at this video. 3JACK
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carland
'88 Apex Redlines
Posts: 152
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Post by carland on Feb 2, 2011 17:40:39 GMT -5
I gotta ask a really dumb question. Does perfect alignment at address improve the chance of making square contact with the ball? In other words, does a feel guy like Crenshaw align the putter square to the line or does he align the putter offline and compensate with his putting stroke?
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Post by aimsmithgolf on Feb 2, 2011 18:04:57 GMT -5
carland,
Well the two I described in earlier post here were the best and they sure as hell didn't. Used to drive me crazy. I walked nine holes in San Diego with Crenshaw and Lanny Wadkins. Crenshaw made everything as usual and so did Wadkins. Crenshaw seemed to be all feel but i think he lined it up right where he wanted it to go.. no push or pull.
Rand
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Post by Richie3Jack on Feb 2, 2011 20:49:39 GMT -5
Loren Roberts aims 2* left at address. He does return it to square to the target at impact. But it's like anything....it's a compensation. Some golfers can make those compensations, some cannot or are better off not having to make one in the first place. I went to Borders and saw the book there. Each chapter in the book is written by a different instructor. To its credit, each chapter is pretty extensive. David Edel's chapter is really good, explaining what putter characteristics effect aim. A putter with no lines will get the golfer more likely to aim to the right. When I got fitted, we started with no lines and I was aiming so far right I may have been aiming at Ocala But it goes into things like putter head shapes, hosel shapes, lines, loft, etc. Then it talks about the weight, shafts, etc and how that fits a stroke. I didn't buy it since Borders wanted $35 for the thing. 3JACK
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Post by gmbtempe on Feb 3, 2011 11:01:08 GMT -5
Loren Roberts aims 2* left at address. He does return it to square to the target at impact. But it's like anything....it's a compensation. Some golfers can make those compensations, some cannot or are better off not having to make one in the first place. I went to Borders and saw the book there. Each chapter in the book is written by a different instructor. To its credit, each chapter is pretty extensive. David Edel's chapter is really good, explaining what putter characteristics effect aim. A putter with no lines will get the golfer more likely to aim to the right. When I got fitted, we started with no lines and I was aiming so far right I may have been aiming at Ocala But it goes into things like putter head shapes, hosel shapes, lines, loft, etc. Then it talks about the weight, shafts, etc and how that fits a stroke. I didn't buy it since Borders wanted $35 for the thing. 3JACK I get Borders coupons all the time, would it be worth $17?
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Post by secondary on Feb 3, 2011 11:31:50 GMT -5
Going to have to go read this thing. Trying to figure out if you could use a cheapo laser and mirror at home to get a feel of how far off you aim as a baseline to start? Is there any mention of a Center Shafted, 2 ball mallet type? I am guessing it tends to aim right but maybe I didn't understand the other posts correctly?
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Post by aimsmithgolf on Feb 3, 2011 12:07:11 GMT -5
All putts are straight putts. True? You have to answer correctly in order to improve your aim.
Rand
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Post by Richie3Jack on Feb 3, 2011 12:18:08 GMT -5
All putts are straight putts. True? You have to answer correctly in order to improve your aim. Rand Mark Sweeney would say no. Straight putts actually do not roll straight. You aim straight, but they don't roll straight. Sweeney did say that if you want to be a great putter, learn to putt well on straight putts (aim) 3JACK
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Post by Richie3Jack on Feb 3, 2011 12:26:49 GMT -5
Going to have to go read this thing. Trying to figure out if you could use a cheapo laser and mirror at home to get a feel of how far off you aim as a baseline to start? Is there any mention of a Center Shafted, 2 ball mallet type? I am guessing it tends to aim right but maybe I didn't understand the other posts correctly? The Edel laser setup isn't exactly expensive. Looks like they took some sort of hard plastic and cut it into a circle the size of a golf hole. Then they made a ridge to put the laser on and use an average laser. You could probably e-mail Edel himself and I wouldn't be shocked if he tell you how to do make one your own. IMO, one could make a laser setup and still wind up putting money in Edel's pocket because they would realize they need to find a putter that fits their aim bias and Edel has something like 30 million options to figure that out (not to mention the weight and shaft fitting). He does go over the 2 ball mallet putters...then tend to get golfers aiming left. Anything that brings the focus more to the back of the putter, the more you will likely aim left. Anything that brings the focus to the front of the putter will more likely get you aiming to the right . Obviously, if you aim left, you want things that promote right aim bias so you can 'steer' your aim back to the target. Rounder putter head shapes get golfers aiming more right, Square shapes get the golfer aiming more left. Black putters with white lines tend to get golfers aiming left, Gray putters with black lines tend to get the golfer aiming more to the right. I believe center shafted putters get golfers aiming more to the right. 3JACK
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Post by Richie3Jack on Feb 3, 2011 12:31:27 GMT -5
Loren Roberts aims 2* left at address. He does return it to square to the target at impact. But it's like anything....it's a compensation. Some golfers can make those compensations, some cannot or are better off not having to make one in the first place. I went to Borders and saw the book there. Each chapter in the book is written by a different instructor. To its credit, each chapter is pretty extensive. David Edel's chapter is really good, explaining what putter characteristics effect aim. A putter with no lines will get the golfer more likely to aim to the right. When I got fitted, we started with no lines and I was aiming so far right I may have been aiming at Ocala But it goes into things like putter head shapes, hosel shapes, lines, loft, etc. Then it talks about the weight, shafts, etc and how that fits a stroke. I didn't buy it since Borders wanted $35 for the thing. 3JACK I get Borders coupons all the time, would it be worth $17? I would've bought one myself for $17. I saw one on Amazon for $17, so when Borders was selling it for $35 I thought it was a rip-off. I really didn't pay attention to the other chapters outside of Sweeney's and Edels. Both those chapters were extensive. There's really only 7 guys I trust with putting instruction: - David Orr
- David Edel
- Geoff Mangum
- John Graham
- Mark Sweeney
- Damon Lucas
- Jamie Donaldson
I'll listen to some others, but I trust these guys much more and I have a good feel of where they are coming from. 3JACK
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johngrahamgolf
'88 Apex Redlines
3Jack Top 20 Short Game/Putting Instructor
Posts: 229
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Post by johngrahamgolf on Feb 3, 2011 16:07:06 GMT -5
Richie,
It was great meeting you at the tweet up during show week. I'm also glad to hear that you had a chance to ask Mark some questions and get some answers. Like everything, there is always information that gets lost in translation from reading a book or hearing things second hand.
Going right to the source is what it's all about. Thanks for including me on that list. That's a pretty strong list right there.
Let me know if there's ever anything I can do for you.
JG
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Post by Richie3Jack on Feb 3, 2011 16:24:24 GMT -5
Not a problem. I've always believed in AimPoint. I think there are some things that can trip a person up and they have to figure them out, but I've always felt it was very valid. Of course, I misinterpreted some things.
I know that Mangum and his people don't see eye-to-eye with Mark and the other AimPoint guys. I give Geoff credit in that he's written a lengthy, detailed and researched rebuttal with regards to AimPoint and I believe he has valid points.
However, I just instructors by their ability to make golfers better. Something like AimPoint may not be 100%, full blown completely accurate. However, when all is said and done I think those who understand it and can use it and can be experts at it, will have an *enormous* advantage...not just an advantage, but an *enormous* advantage....over the rest of their competition that doesn't understand it.
3JACK
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Post by aimsmithgolf on Feb 3, 2011 19:33:20 GMT -5
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roh
Apex II's
Posts: 53
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Post by roh on Feb 3, 2011 21:36:46 GMT -5
I would love to get fit by Edel. If nothing else, it would take one more thing off my mind - do I have a putter that is good for me. Question though, if you are a spot putter (aiming to a small spot within a foot of the ball) does it matter if your aim at 6 or 10 or 15 feet isn't so good?
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Post by Richie3Jack on Feb 3, 2011 21:43:31 GMT -5
I would love to get fit by Edel. If nothing else, it would take one more thing off my mind - do I have a putter that is good for me. Question though, if you are a spot putter (aiming to a small spot within a foot of the ball) does it matter if your aim at 6 or 10 or 15 feet isn't so good? You and I think alike. That doubt really screws me over. I mentioned this quite a bit to David because what happens is I start trying to figure out what is wrong and it's not hard to start working on the wrong things As far as spot putting goes, it doesn't matter. The fitting process calls for you to aim the putter exactly like you normally would. You can line up the ball if you wish. I think the only thing they wouldn't advise is to not put the putter head in front of the ball and then put it behind the ball (ala Nick Price) because the laser would hit the mirror when you place the putter in front of the ball and could throw things off. One of the things they make clear is to do it just like you would normally do it. I told them that I knew I had a right aim bias. So they told me whatever I do, do not try to aim left on purpose to compensate for my right aim bias. Just let the putter naturally do the work. Eventually they'll find one that fits your eye. 3JACK
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