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Post by cloran on Aug 12, 2011 12:08:27 GMT -5
Pretty impressive. Only nit-pick (I know I've been critical lately) is that they had the testers hit 12 shots without the insert, then 12 shots with the insert. The improvement in accuracy could've simply been from the golfers getting warmed up or adjusting their aim. I'm sure tightdraw could chime in on better ways to test after all his years in audio testing. Testing is a subject that audio-nerds, I mean audiophiles , can debate endlessly. All they'd have to do (and they may have... I didn't read the results yet) are set things up blindly so that player doesn't know if the club they are hitting has the insert or not. To be REALLY scientific they could blind the people collecting the data as well. Set up each club exactly the same and then give it a number. Then just enter the # on the head into your spreadsheet and track the results on trackman... turn the results in, peer review, publish, and become millionaires! Go one step further and use a sample size bigger than this (10X greater would be good) and I'd be on board 100%. Set everything as described previously and use a IronByron instead of people... and well, you've got yourself some rather credible evidence.
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Post by Richie3Jack on Aug 12, 2011 12:40:28 GMT -5
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Post by pavaveda on Aug 12, 2011 12:56:23 GMT -5
Just a guess that the "Max Height" number in the chart in post #10 marks the distance at which the shot reached its maximum height.
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Post by Richie3Jack on Aug 12, 2011 13:00:31 GMT -5
makes more sense.
The Shotmaker insert has only been on the market for 40 days. Harrison is saying that in order to save money with the economy, they shut down their Tour department. So it helps explain why the Shotmaker hasn't found its way on the Tour.
3JACK
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roh
Apex II's
Posts: 53
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Post by roh on Aug 16, 2011 17:46:09 GMT -5
That thread at WRX continues to go nuts. My problem with it is that site is chock full of guys who claim GI clubs don't work for them because they can't work the ball. Now they rave about a spin reducing mechanism. I still may check it out. I have always been given tip soft shafts and it appears that type of shaft may benefit the most. Richie, please post your results.
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Post by Richie3Jack on Aug 16, 2011 18:17:31 GMT -5
It may be a bit of a time crunch. Mine won't ship out until 8/24. I'm probably going to do a Trackman session on 9/3. I'd love to be able to install it thru my grip....that way I could hit some shots without it, see the results...then hit shots with it...see the results on the Trackman.
I agree, the GolfWRX thread is nuts. But, there's a thread on Wishon's forum that is getting the same feedback.
Like I said, it's kinda funny in a sad way that the only negatives so far are people who seem to be jealous that they didn't come up with the idea themselves...or they are the typical negative internet poster/troll.
The Wishon guys are pretty skeptical, but the guys that have tried it out have copped to it working.
I believe this is going to be great...and it will be huge. And I believe we'll start seeing shaft manufacturers installing something permanently in their shafts like this. Which would kinda suck in a sense because the great thing about the Shotmaker is you can take it from shaft to shaft.
3JACK
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Post by pavaveda on Aug 16, 2011 18:56:41 GMT -5
And I believe we'll start seeing shaft manufacturers installing something permanently in their shafts like this. Which would kinda suck in a sense because the great thing about the Shotmaker is you can take it from shaft to shaft. OTOH, if you want to have it in multiple shafts, you're looking at a pricey upgrade per shaft. If manufacturers start including it by default, you don't have that problem. When you think about it, it's interesting that manufacturers haven't worked with creating shafts that have smaller shafts "floating" inside of them. I know there's the Sensicore insert, but its main goal was to reduce feedback vibration. I don't think they also claimed accuracy improvements.
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Post by walther on Aug 16, 2011 19:17:58 GMT -5
Seems to be a couple buy it now on EBay...
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Post by Richie3Jack on Aug 16, 2011 19:25:44 GMT -5
You can buy it on eBay which is what I did. But it's on backorder to at least 8.24. That's the earliest you'll get it because the install tools are on backorder. And Harrison doesn't want to give out the inserts without the install tool unless you've purchased the install tool already or you are a dealer. One can go to a harrison dealer and have it installed. It's $99 for just the insert to be installed. It's $140 for the insert and install tool.
3JACK
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Post by cloran on Aug 16, 2011 19:29:33 GMT -5
"The insert wall is paper thin. It will break if squeezed by two fingers or bent by one hand."
I'd best stay away, lol...
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dhc1
'88 Apex Redlines
Posts: 178
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Post by dhc1 on Aug 17, 2011 12:17:38 GMT -5
Can someone explain what this does in terms of d plane to increase accuracy? I presume it must affect club face and allows one to hit the sweetspot easier? Not sure why that would increase fairways hit. Thanks
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Post by Richie3Jack on Aug 17, 2011 12:35:12 GMT -5
Can someone explain what this does in terms of d plane to increase accuracy? I presume it must affect club face and allows one to hit the sweetspot easier? Not sure why that would increase fairways hit. Thanks The problem with graphite, even if it is spine aligned and FLO'd is that the tip end of the shaft is still pretty unstable. From looking at the FlightScope data that some have provided, we see a slightly lower launch and a slightly lower spin rate. FlightScope has a thing called 'side spin', which is really the spin axis of the ball. That also decreases. So, you can analyze that how you want. Personally, I think what it does is it makes the kick of the shaft into and thru impact much more stable and consistent. I think that helps quite a bit with the clubface (like you guessed) and probably a small bit with the path. From my experience, when a golfer has issues with curvature of the ball, it's usually the face that is the culprit. For instance, if my path on 10 shots in a row is at 0* to the target, I can have a face be open, closed, square, etc...and each of those will create a different curvature. With the #'s that people are getting on FlightScope...the curve on the ball is decreasing quite a bit, so I conclude that it's mainly affecting the clubface control. 3JACK
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dhc1
'88 Apex Redlines
Posts: 178
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Post by dhc1 on Aug 18, 2011 12:32:36 GMT -5
I thought that one of the negative poster on wrx made an interesting hypothesis that the insert would not make a well fitted shaft perform better (ie, it makes non optimal stock shafts better). If true, then you wouldn't see a lot pros using this as their shaft are presumably achieving max performance already. The data that was provided in the various samples didn't specifically address whether the base comparison was "optimally" fitted.
I asked Kevin walker at fuzion about it and while at first he wasn't aware of it, he was intrigued enough to get his team to do some analysis. I am eager to see what his thoughts are.
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Post by Richie3Jack on Aug 18, 2011 12:41:19 GMT -5
I see what the guy is saying. But, I don't think it has much to do with fitting (and I think many of the proponents have been fitted for a good shaft already).
Graphite shafts are getting better, but they still have a ways to go. I think a good, well fitted shaft helps stabilize the kick better, but I think with the Shotmaker insert, it just makes it much more stable.
I have talked to people who have raved about the insert with the Oban shafts. Oban is a high quality shaft and you cannot purchase it from the company. Yoiu have to buy it from a dealer who fits you. So I conclude that the Oban shaft is probably being a well fitted shaft for the golfer and they are still seeing improvements.
Also, I just think that far more often than not...graphite is just unstable than it is stable. Regardless of the fitting. I think there are some companies that are pretty darn good like Oban. But, what if you don't want to pay for an Oban shaft to be installed? Or maybe you just don't like their shafts?
Graphite serves really one main purpose...increases swing speed. It's not an accuracy component of the club, otherwise we would see much more golfers on Tour using them in their irons.
3JACK
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dhc1
'88 Apex Redlines
Posts: 178
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Post by dhc1 on Aug 18, 2011 12:45:25 GMT -5
Makes sense.
It would be interesting to hear from some of the top instructors who frequent this site and have access to pro tour players to see if there's interest at that level. I think Anthony Kim could use given his driving stats as presented by R3J's compilation....
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