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Post by cwdlaw223 on Jan 31, 2012 15:12:26 GMT -5
stackandtiltgolfswing.com/dvdoffer/Looks like a decent video about Trackman, Forceplates and 3D imaging. Although I'm not a S&T guy, I love the fact this pattern is drawn towards impact instead of just looking at video and hoping you got it right.
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Post by cloran on Feb 2, 2012 6:28:28 GMT -5
This looks really cool, and I wish more instructors did this. A pet peeve of mine is watching a golfer swing as a "model" and there is no ball flight. What's the point?!
At first I though the DVDs were going to cover the specific geometry that Mac teaches in darom. That would have caused a nice little s**t storm, lol.
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Post by gmbtempe on Feb 2, 2012 8:54:16 GMT -5
This looks really cool, and I wish more instructors did this. A pet peeve of mine is watching a golfer swing as a "model" and there is no ball flight. What's the point?! At first I though the DVDs were going to cover the specific geometry that Mac teaches in darom. That would have caused a nice little s**t storm, lol. There was a ton of stuff left out in the first DVD. If you follow some of these guys when they look at swings or discuss this or that you realize there were many important details left out. It might have just been to "mainstream" it but I felt like for a serious player it left more questions than answers.
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Post by cwdlaw223 on Feb 2, 2012 9:08:30 GMT -5
I give these guys a ton of credit for using techonlogy to prove/explain their positions. Video isn't enough anymore. It helps, but to get down to the nitty gritty you need technology like Trackman, 3D machines, force plate measurements. Otherwise, we're just guessing (I'll take the machines calculating/measuring over my naked eye).
The problem I have with darom is that it's so secretive and there are very few instructors. I might like the pattern, or might not, I just have no idea about the pattern itself. All one big mystery. I suspect Mac was smart to keep it secret so nobody can crap all over it which happens with every other public pattern.
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Post by gmbtempe on Feb 2, 2012 9:22:32 GMT -5
I give these guys a ton of credit for using techonlogy to prove/explain their positions. Video isn't enough anymore. It helps, but to get down to the nitty gritty you need technology like Trackman, 3D machines, force plate measurements. Otherwise, we're just guessing (I'll take the machines calculating/measuring over my naked eye). The problem I have with darom is that it's so secretive and there are very few instructors. I might like the pattern, or might not, I just have no idea about the pattern itself. All one big mystery. I suspect Mac was smart to keep it secret so nobody can crap all over it which happens with every other public pattern. Well lets separate the two camps because SnT is not moraad. They have clearly left the camp and now have gone mainstream to produce books and dvd's, there is no reason to keep it a secret. I have asked Nick Clearwater who works for Stack and Tilt and he has been more forthright with his responses. I would feel frustrated though if I was going to someone for a lesson and asked them a "why" question and was basically brushed off because they did not want to reveal a why detail. Now if they told me they did not want me to discuss it with other people I would respect that.
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Post by cwdlaw223 on Feb 2, 2012 9:32:45 GMT -5
I know S&T isn't darome. darome doesn't say much publicly and there are very, very few outlets to get information about darome. Not intending to bash darome! I have no issue against S&T or darome (except for the lack of information).
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Post by Richie3Jack on Feb 2, 2012 9:58:56 GMT -5
Just to clarify, I've never had George Hunt brush me off with any question I've ever had. In fact, one time I had a lesson with him and was waiting for him to finish up with a lesson before me. He apologized for running late and talking about how the previous student had some questions about her 7-wood play before her time was up If M.O.R.A.D. is secretives, it's with regards to instructors who have been thru it not publishing stuff, whether it be in a book or a video. Or discussing stuff on the internet. And there's more to it than just 'we don't want to give the information out.' A lot of it has to do with other things like instructors misrepresenting the work or instructors adding their theories to the work and M.O.R.A.D. does not want to be a part of that. I have been working with George for about 15 months and I can tell you that what I know about M.O.R.A.D. is probably a lot more than 99% of the golfer's in this world know, even some S&T guys, even some golfers that have gone to some schools....but, it's still the tip of the iceberg. It's not an attempt to insult anybody, but it's just reality. 3JACK
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Post by cwdlaw223 on Feb 2, 2012 10:07:06 GMT -5
Richie -
You're pretty much damned with any pattern that gets out these days!!! I can understand the secretiveness and just wish I could learn more about it.
I give the S&T guys credit for putting their work out there and now developing a DVD about impact/body movement/technology to justify their pattern. I don't have a S&T swing, but I appreciate the work P&B have done on this pattern. I also appreciate Mac!!!
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Post by kevcarter on Feb 2, 2012 10:23:43 GMT -5
Just to clarify, I've never had George Hunt brush me off with any question I've ever had. In fact, one time I had a lesson with him and was waiting for him to finish up with a lesson before me. He apologized for running late and talking about how the previous student had some questions about her 7-wood play before her time was up If M.O.R.A.D. is secretives, it's with regards to instructors who have been thru it not publishing stuff, whether it be in a book or a video. Or discussing stuff on the internet. And there's more to it than just 'we don't want to give the information out.' A lot of it has to do with other things like instructors misrepresenting the work or instructors adding their theories to the work and M.O.R.A.D. does not want to be a part of that. I have been working with George for about 15 months and I can tell you that what I know about M.O.R.A.D. is probably a lot more than 99% of the golfer's in this world know, even some S&T guys, even some golfers that have gone to some schools....but, it's still the tip of the iceberg. It's not an attempt to insult anybody, but it's just reality. 3JACK IMHO, Mac was brilliant in making this decision to keep it private. When you are that good, you don't need to scream it from the rooftops. Kevin
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Post by iacas on Feb 2, 2012 10:51:01 GMT -5
There was a ton of stuff left out in the first DVD. If you follow some of these guys when they look at swings or discuss this or that you realize there were many important details left out. It might have just been to "mainstream" it but I felt like for a serious player it left more questions than answers. I'd tend to agree with that. But at the same time, there's almost nothing you can do about that. We're finishing up our Five Simple Keys® DVD and there's only so much you can put in. Things feel differently for different people, and some people's bodies work differently. For a general-purpose medium you can only be so specific. You need to work with an instructor or spend hours yourself looking online for the specifics. There's a small subset of golfers, willing to do that.
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Post by gmbtempe on Feb 2, 2012 10:58:55 GMT -5
There was a ton of stuff left out in the first DVD. If you follow some of these guys when they look at swings or discuss this or that you realize there were many important details left out. It might have just been to "mainstream" it but I felt like for a serious player it left more questions than answers. I'd tend to agree with that. But at the same time, there's almost nothing you can do about that. We're finishing up our Five Simple Keys® DVD and there's only so much you can put in. Things feel differently for different people, and some people's bodies work differently. For a general-purpose medium you can only be so specific. You need to work with an instructor or spend hours yourself looking online for the specifics. There's a small subset of golfers, willing to do that. I understand that, its the marketplace, I am not faulting anyone really its just a tad frustrating given my "curious" nature. I do have a bigger issue with the issue of asking a direct question and getting very vague answer, intentionally. I guess now that I think about it thats not limited to Mord or SnT guys because I have been to many instructors that did not think I was sophisticated enough to understand the answer. I think that was one of the big things that Denny helped me with, I would ask a specific question and he would give me a direct answer with a reason why.
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Post by Richie3Jack on Feb 2, 2012 15:19:25 GMT -5
IMHO, Mac was brilliant in making this decision to keep it private. When you are that good, you don't need to scream it from the rooftops. Kevin Brilliant or not, I respect those wishes in hopes to live by the 'golden rule.' There's one very famous, top-10 Golf Digest instructor who I do not put up any of his stuff on the blog because he requested me not to do so. 3JACK
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awkrad
Beat up Radials
Posts: 44
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Post by awkrad on Feb 3, 2012 5:09:22 GMT -5
Any updates on the availability of the new DVD, especially in the UK?
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Post by iacas on Feb 3, 2012 9:29:46 GMT -5
Any updates on the availability of the new DVD, especially in the UK? They're still editing it and have said end of February now.
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Post by cloran on Feb 3, 2012 17:02:38 GMT -5
I watched the preview again... I wonder if they will be going over a pattern for a ball that starts left and fades to the target, or is that just a "ball position/handle height" thing? I saw lots of push-draws on the vid.
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