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Post by Richie3Jack on Nov 17, 2013 22:50:50 GMT -5
I have seen a bunch. Either with players I've worked with or work with full-time. There was a place that had about a dozen players on Tour and their full Trackman reports. Boo Weekley was at -3.5* down. Luke Donald was about -2.5* down. I saw Keegan Bradley's was at +2.5*, Rory's was at +1* when I saw it in 2012 and in 2013 he was at +2.5*. Stenson's is at -2.5* Can't remember all of the other numbers.
3JACK
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wedge
Beat up Radials
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Post by wedge on Dec 27, 2013 7:18:00 GMT -5
I wanted to start a thread with regards to The Golfing Machine's hitting vs. swinging patterns. This should not be confused with John Erickson's (www.advancedballstriking.com) 'hitting vs. swinging patterns.' Although we can discuss it here (I may end up moving it to a new thread if the discussion becomes too much since TGM hitting/swinging is different from Erickson's hitting/swinging). As defined by Homer Kelley in the 7th Edition of The Golfing Machine, the hitting procedure occurs when the golfer drive loads and the swinging procedure occurs when the golfer drag loads. Drive Loading = Pushing the club into impact with the rear arm/hand. Aka the 'crap smacker.' I often refer to it like a 'palm heel thrust' into the ball. With drag loading (swinging procedure) this is more of a pull down with the lead arm/hand. As Homer Kelley described the sensation and visualization of a golfer pulling the rope to ring a large bell. PLEASE, let's refrain from criticizing the processes in this thread and more or less get to analyzing the patterns. This thread is more designed for those who don't understand TGM and its terminology and therefore have no idea what we are talking about when it comes to things like 'punch elbow', 'pitch elbow', etc. 3JACK |
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wedge
Beat up Radials
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Post by wedge on Dec 27, 2013 7:19:36 GMT -5
always nice to be able to have visuals....to give a complete understanding
thank you
wedge
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Post by Richie3Jack on Dec 27, 2013 9:02:45 GMT -5
If I had the time and desire, I should really revise this.
But, thanks anyway.
3JACK
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Post by teeace on Dec 27, 2013 9:33:08 GMT -5
If I had the time and desire, I should really revise this. But, thanks anyway. 3JACK I think this kind of thread could be really good beginning and lead to deeper understanding of different delivery styles as I think there much more than TGM thought in this. I put players in two opposite categories, vertical and horizontal delivery styles and of course there is huge grey area between those. So dragging the butt down to the ball is swinging around the horizontal axis and I call it vertical delivery swinging. People with that thinking use to see lag from face on view as the opposite is where everything is seen from top down (also lag) and players try to get the club head first down (shaft flattening) and keep as much lag as possible relative to that circle. By those differences they end up to situations where they have to use their hands and forearms differently and there we can find many very interesting actions which are not really visible in videos or still images but got big influence to the club head. Right hand pressure agains left thumb is small part of that, but there is much more what you can use in horizontal swinging and where you can't get that much advance in vertical way. That would also explain strong forearms and why you need them, not to use your wrists but for something that looks like it. |
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Post by Richie3Jack on Dec 27, 2013 10:23:47 GMT -5
When I was in college and considered becoming a golf instructor after graduating, I really felt that it was important to understand every teaching methodology and philosophy I could find. This way one could not only learn some new things and viewpoints of the swing, but to also understand what students have worked on in the past and to better understand where the student was coming from as far as their experience goes. Then I could better understand what 'bad stuff' they learned and had to eradicate from their brain and take the 'good stuff' they learned and build upon that.
I don't believe in 'hitting vs. swinging' as Homer Kelley put it because most golfers have two functional arms and hands that are attached to the club. And with 'hitting' there has to be some either pull down or dropping motion in the startdown. If I simply pushed with the right arm and hand, I would be pushing the handle towards the sky.
But what I do like about hitting versus swinging is it does help explain the different appearances of a golf swing which even up until 2000, most instruction had a difficult time explaining at all and usually ignored it or came up with some convoluted, ambiguous excuse for it
This to me is good example of my train of thought when I was in college. Understanding what TGM teaches and then trying to figure out the good and the bad.
3JACK
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Post by teeace on Dec 27, 2013 10:50:26 GMT -5
If I simply pushed with the right arm and hand, I would be pushing the handle towards the sky. 3JACK One great sentence to lead us to the right way of using right arm and hand in BSW. It should not be that old waitress position as that puts everything to wrong tension and creates situation you described. I'm not really teaching it like Martin Ayers does, but there is many similar points and I want the palm of the right hand always look toward the player, not away of him. When you do that in your BSW you will get your trail elbow to the right position and it will never fly. It also puts you to the position where you are ready to pull in instead of pulling out, and it... yes.. it bends your left wrist to dorsiflexion like Hogan. Also when you got your right arm at that pulling position, you can create lot of lag when butt end of the club moves from the palm to the fingers at transition (if there is anything like transition in golf swing???) and extends your fingers. That creates the illusion where 99% of people see increasing wrist angle as it's actually change of relation between arm and shaft, not wrist movement. After that what you have to time is how to increase the grip pressure to speed up the club head. No wrist action, no rolling, just squeezing the grip and it will make strong and late release. And when you do that with PF of the left wrist, you will learn quickly how weak and diagonal grip you have to have to not close the face too much. Also when you learn to make it correctly, there is just no way face could rotate too much as the arm reaches it's limit, so you can FEEL! you close it as hard as you can. |
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Post by andy riggsbee on Sept 21, 2020 16:35:25 GMT -5
where does Mo Norman fit into this?
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Post by Stan on Jan 23, 2021 10:07:45 GMT -5
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