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Post by teeace on Aug 5, 2013 16:57:47 GMT -5
And the fingers move with pure p.f. but they are not the initiators of the move they are not torquing the grip end. The wrist is the initiator of pure p.f., that's what you do not understand. If you use a torquing move with the fingers it changes the face angle even though it also results in p.f. But it ain't pure p.f. Yep yep... old idiot. This is pure PF and confirmed by many medical doctors and other anatomy experts So shut up man with tens of nicknames.
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Post by jeffy on Aug 5, 2013 17:04:33 GMT -5
The only fantasies are Kelvin's and Tapio's and yours. Anyone can apply a finger pressure to torque the grip end of the club which will result in a closing face angle and that has absolutely nothing to do with pure p.f. in doing pure p.f. there is no finger pressure applied to the grip end that results in a closing face angle. It's a combination of those moves the finger torquing the grip end will result in a p.f. of the wrist and torque the face closing. But you can just p.f. with no finger pressure torquing the grip end and all that will do is layoff the club under plane or deloft it depending when it's done. I think even you said Tapio was using his fingers to torque the club.You guys are in denial I did, but he wasn't making a golf swing. Anyway, believe what you want, take lessons from Jeff Mann and join the senior tour and win millions.
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Jeff Mann
Aug 5, 2013 17:20:15 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by cwdlaw223 on Aug 5, 2013 17:20:15 GMT -5
I got through about 20 minutes and saw no holes, just some strawmen and some misinformation. Early supination will include palmar flexion, just as he eventually illustrates, and as you see in the swings of Gmac, Woodland and Hogan. He's dead wrong that supination doesn't close the face and just as wrong when he claims PF closes the face, but, at this point, who cares what he says? And this "finger torquing" stuff is fantasy. As Tapio says, we've been through all of this endlessly and Jeff Mann's latest video doesn't change anything. Serious question Jeffy, when is Woodland using "early" supination in his lead arm in the downswing? The term early is too subjective.
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Post by jeffy on Aug 5, 2013 17:45:02 GMT -5
Where do you think he does it? Given his relatively short backswing, he probably starts it during transition. Take a look and let me know what you think.
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Post by jeffy on Aug 5, 2013 18:02:32 GMT -5
Look Jeffy you can make an easy $1000. Helps with the purchase of a second Phanthom. Take him up on it. Jeffy wrote the following in a 3jack forum thread after viewing the first 20 minutes of my video-: "He's dead wrong that supination doesn't close the face and just as wrong when he claims PF closes the face, but, at this point, who cares what he says? And this "finger torquing" stuff is fantasy". I will donate $1,000 to Jeffy's golf forum if he can demonstrate how early "pure" left forearm supination can close the clubface to the clubhead arc - in the absence of an additional clubface-closing biomechanical action. I never stated that PF closes the clubface relative to the clubhead arc - and I specifically stated that it moves the clubshaft more underplane. If a golfer simultaneously applies a compensatory left forearm supinatory maneuver to keep the clubshaft on-plane, then the combined biomechanical action will cause the clubface to "appear" to be slightly closed. He may believe that a finger torquing action, which often happens during an active palmar flexion maneuver, is pure fantasy, but I will be happy to donate $1,000 to his golf forum if he can demonstrate that he can close the clubface relative to the clubhead arc during a "pure" early left forearm supination without torquing the clubshaft about its longitudinal axis. Jeff. Read more: newtongolfinstitute.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=golfinstruction&action=display&thread=465&page=1#ixzz2b8aZnxBbEasiest $1,000 I ever made!! However, my forum can't take his money since it is a hobby, not a commercial venture, but I'll take it! Video coming up!
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Post by cwdlaw223 on Aug 5, 2013 18:04:23 GMT -5
Where do you think he does it? Given his relatively short backswing, he probably starts it during transition. Take a look and let me know what you think. I'm not the one advocating one way or another "early" supination. Somewhere from P4-P6.5? If Gary W is going to be a model I believe you should be able to tell us when his early supination occurs and also what late would be for another golfer. There has to be some objectivity to this "early" or "late" supination within P4-P6.5. From P4-P6.5, please tell us when "early" supination would occur and when "late" supination would occur. Early is so imprecise and could mean different things to different people.
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Post by jeffy on Aug 5, 2013 18:56:39 GMT -5
Where do you think he does it? Given his relatively short backswing, he probably starts it during transition. Take a look and let me know what you think. I'm not the one advocating one way or another "early" supination. Somewhere from P4-P6.5? If Gary W is going to be a model I believe you should be able to tell us when his early supination occurs and also what late would be for another golfer. There has to be some objectivity to this "early" or "late" supination within P4-P6.5. From P4-P6.5, please tell us when "early" supination would occur and when "late" supination would occur. Early is so imprecise and could mean different things to different people. OK, I looked at his swing. As I suggested, for Gary, it starts in transition. Some do it later, like Hogan. You must remember the "50-year old blurry" GIFs I only posted about a million times?? This "late supination" is just a goofy invention of Jeff Mann. I refuse to discuss it!
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Post by jeffy on Aug 5, 2013 18:58:58 GMT -5
Jeffy, Please make it better than Tapio's video. Show us all the important aspects. Actually, I have a better idea. I'll split the $1,000 with Clay if he goes onto the Facebook Golf Biomechanists page, posts Jeff Mann's nonsense and asks if his claims are true.
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Post by jeffy on Aug 5, 2013 19:03:16 GMT -5
Clay, for old times sake:
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Post by jeffy on Aug 5, 2013 19:07:45 GMT -5
Another oldie but goodie from one of Kel's articles, featuring you-know-who:
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Post by jeffy on Aug 5, 2013 19:08:28 GMT -5
finger torquing at it's finest, the master at work! Yes, he devoted a whole chapter to it in "Five Lessons"!
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Post by jeffy on Aug 5, 2013 19:12:34 GMT -5
Nah, that wasn't the Jeff Mann challenge. He won't give the thousand then, plus that video you were going to make could show us how wrong he is. I had a feeling there was going to be a cop out....disappointing Jeffy. You mean you can't make the video? Anybody can! Tell you what, you make the video and I'll split it with you. Or, here is a better idea, maybe we can have a contest, and you, Clay and Tapio can submit videos and, whichever one is best, I'll present to Mann and we'll split the $1,000.
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Post by jeffy on Aug 5, 2013 19:18:42 GMT -5
You mean you can't make the video? Anybody can! Tell you what, you make the video and I'll split it with you. Or, here is a better idea, maybe we can have a contest, and you, Clay and Tapio can submit videos and, whichever one is best, I'll present to Mann and we'll split the $1,000. Except that wasn't Mann's challenge, he wants you to do it, because you are the one that disputes his assumptions, he must like you more than us to give you that honor. Let me ask you, do you think it is possible to supinate the left forearm and, without doing anything else, NOT close the face?
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Jeff Mann
Aug 5, 2013 19:26:32 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by cwdlaw223 on Aug 5, 2013 19:26:32 GMT -5
Jeffry -
For new tubes sake, how about you give some detail and tell us when is early and when is late.
Step up to the plate. It can't just be a look.
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Post by jeffy on Aug 5, 2013 19:27:23 GMT -5
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