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Post by rohlio on Feb 20, 2011 14:53:23 GMT -5
I apologize I should not have asked a sarcastic question, I was feeling salty this morning for an entirely different reason. I just didn't take the time to also make images of the face on view. But I don't see him on his toes there either. He is jumping off the ground (which I like btw), but viewed in motion from both the DTL and face on view it looks to me as if he is rolling both feet (ala Jack grout). The reason I posted the down the line and gave the frame numbers is because you can see that his inside left foot is rolling over and his left big toe is lifting up off the ground. You can see this imo, because you can see the sole of his shoe underneath the front half of his left foot at impact. Which to me shows that he has weighted his foot in the following manner Either way I was asking what you saw that made you think his weight distribution was too far toward his toes during the impact interval. I did it in a piss poor way, but I was actually asking why you thought that.
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Post by gmbtempe on Feb 20, 2011 15:06:58 GMT -5
Rand,
Do you think he should overhaul his swing because as you stated "caution, swing method can lead to lower back problems"?
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Post by aimsmithgolf on Feb 20, 2011 18:59:32 GMT -5
Rand, Do you think he should overhaul his swing because as you stated "caution, swing method can lead to lower back problems"? No I wouldn't recommend an "overhaul" of his swing. Just adjustments that would keep from putting so much stress on his lower back. Rand
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Post by aimsmithgolf on Feb 20, 2011 20:29:29 GMT -5
Rohlio, No problem... we all have those days... mine seemed to be too frequent. As I said earlier I will go into more detail if chouse12 asks but compare that picture of impact you have in your info section, which I assume is your own, with chouse12. To me your impact position is IDEAL. I said "too much TOWARD the toes" and should have said toward the toes of the left foot to clarify. After looking at my point again I can see why you were surprised. More aptly stated perhaps is that his movements of the left leg and foot just prior to impact may contribute to his inconsistent contact. Rand
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Post by chouse12 on Feb 21, 2011 0:01:26 GMT -5
Ok... 7 iron. I don't share the enthusiasm for position golf that others in this forum advocate. I believe that the swinging action must be learned first before anything else is considered. I looked at your videos on youtube and you have learned to SWING the club nicely here at an early age. Swing positives: 1. Setup to the ball well. 2. Free flowing swing of the club. Not hitting AT the ball. 3. Good position at the top of the backswing to swing the club down and through. Swing negatives: 1. Grip. Palms are not facing. Left hand is too strong for the swing type and does not match the right hand. 2. Transition. Upper body dips down in an attempt to swing harder. 3. Foot action. Weight distribution of feet too much toward the toes during impact stage. Caution: Swing method can lead to lower back problems. Now how you go about improving your game is left up to you. You can chose between the position oriented or swing oriented instruction systems. I prefer the swing vs position. I will comment further based on your interest in my initial observations. Rand Thank you for the comments. As far as my grip goes, how I form my grip is as follows: I have the butt of the club sitting in the crease between my left hand and fingers and ensure the pp#2 is intact. Then I put my right hand on the club, first ensuring that pp#1 is intact then pp#3. I try to feel as if the lifeline of my right hand sits at the bottom joint of my left hand thumb (pp#1) and that there is a good amount of pressure there. I suppose that this leads to my palms not facing each other...Mr. Orr actually had me rotate my wrists inward slightly (i.e. so that my palms were even farther from being parallel). This was because my left wrist was slightly bowed at P4 and rotating my wrists changed the left wrist condition throughout the swing. I'm not disagreeing with your opinion, I am just saying that this is why I do what I do. I would be interested in hearing why you think this is a negative to my swing. Completely agree with my transition being a negative, as far as dipping down. I have worked on this in the past but usually it creeps back into my swing. I will start focusing on fixing this. As far as the foot action part, I'm still a little confused by what you mean. If you mean what I think you mean, it is that by the time I get to impact, my left heel has come off the ground. I agree that this is a problem and I think it is related to my transition. It's funny that you mention lower back issues. I actually had some lower back problems about 2.5-3 years ago (swinging as I was in my oldest video). Since making the changes that have resulted in my current swing, my back has improved a lot and it doesn't bother me at all. What do you think would cause lower back problems with my swing currently? To the OP. The ways you mentioned monitoring you hand pressures would all work just fine. I would certainly put a little time and attention into that. Also you mentioned wanting to see your shaft exit lower. Why? Your exit plane matches with what you are doing in the earlier parts of your swing. That to me would be unnecessary tampering. I'm trying to stay on the circle for the entire swing and my exit, through the shoulder, is too high. Through the middle of my bicep would be closer to inline imo. I think this is also related to what gmbtempe mentioned earlier when he compared me to Duval.
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Post by rohlio on Feb 21, 2011 0:26:52 GMT -5
I'm trying to stay on the circle for the entire swing and my exit, through the shoulder, is too high. Through the middle of my bicep would be closer to inline imo. I think this is also related to what gmbtempe mentioned earlier when he compared me to Duval. Your p6 through release is such that if you try to bring the clubshaft out through your bicep you will have to change the way you release the club. I think gmb was getting at this since Duval definately cp'ed the club. Unless you want to change your entire release or manipulate the hell out of the club post impact I think you will find it impossible to change that exit position of the club. I think it matches perfectly with the other elements that you do well personally. I wouldn't change that just to change it, there needs to be a reason to do so. Still a beautiful swing imo...if you can putt I bet you could play the game for real with the right amount of time invested.
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Post by gmbtempe on Feb 21, 2011 0:36:32 GMT -5
I think you can CF it and release it on plane, the "slinging" CF move he has is a result rather than a conscious move IMO. if his pivot did not stall out it would look a lot more on plane.
Here is a CF swing that is on plane and not CP, this is what I think produces the most consistent iron play.
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Post by chouse12 on Feb 21, 2011 14:13:35 GMT -5
I'm trying to stay on the circle for the entire swing and my exit, through the shoulder, is too high. Through the middle of my bicep would be closer to inline imo. I think this is also related to what gmbtempe mentioned earlier when he compared me to Duval. Your p6 through release is such that if you try to bring the clubshaft out through your bicep you will have to change the way you release the club. I think gmb was getting at this since Duval definately cp'ed the club. Unless you want to change your entire release or manipulate the hell out of the club post impact I think you will find it impossible to change that exit position of the club. I think it matches perfectly with the other elements that you do well personally. I wouldn't change that just to change it, there needs to be a reason to do so. Still a beautiful swing imo...if you can putt I bet you could play the game for real with the right amount of time invested. I think that gmb is right, that the pivot stall causes the high exit. I'm thinking that if I stay in flexion longer through impact and extend more gradually, I'll be able to turn through and not stall like I do currently. Thoughts on this?
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Post by aimsmithgolf on Feb 21, 2011 19:04:27 GMT -5
chouse12, You wrote: "As far as my grip goes,.......... I am just saying that this is why I do what I do. I would be interested in hearing why you think this is a negative to my swing." It would seem that a palms-facing, more neutral grip would fit your swing pattern perfectly. It promotes a much more natural way of releasing the club fully and freely through impact. I would have to see your grip up close to say any more. You have to set your grip first and THEN develop a swing around it. Your instructor must have a reason for it but I can't think of anything myself. "Completely agree with my transition being a negative, as far as dipping down. I have worked on this in the past but usually it creeps back into my swing. I will start focusing on fixing this." I had the same problem. Hit impulse. Could be leading to a lot of problems in consistency. Do you feel you hit the ball fat too often? Too many mishits? I discovered that if I kept my breastbone still during transition I contacted the ball much better. That requires more rapid separation of the arms from the shoulders at the beginning of the down swing. "As far as the foot action part, I'm still a little confused by what you mean. If you mean what I think you mean, it is that by the time I get to impact, my left heel has come off the ground. I agree that this is a problem and I think it is related to my transition." This is clearly shown from the frontal view. Follow the left foot from the beginning of the downswing to impact. Concentrate ONLY on the left foot. Replay it again and again. You will see the left heel start to move very early and the weight move too quickly toward the toe area from parallel to impact. You see this a lot from someone trying to add power via the body. I always wanted to see my left foot in my impact position before reaching parallel. I can tell you I have struggled for many years with my left foot and lower body being "late to the show" of impact with the ball. "It's funny that you mention lower back issues. I actually had some lower back problems about 2.5-3 years ago (swinging as I was in my oldest video). Since making the changes that have resulted in my current swing, my back has improved a lot and it doesn't bother me at all. What do you think would cause lower back problems with my swing currently?" It's a part of the game unfortunately. Moving a half inch or inch away from the ball, getting your hands up a touch and flattening the back swing plane some can help as I understand it. Strengthening the muscles around the spine really helped me. Google "egoscue nicklaus". Jack Nicklaus had terrible back pain and SWORE by Egoscue's method. Site is www.egoscue.comStarted playing the game in 1969 myself at the age of 16. Self taught. I always wished I had taken up the game earlier. Rarely do I offer any swing advice anymore but your swing reminded me a lot of the way I swung the club way back then and I just wanted to share some of the things that I discovered over the years. Hope they help your game improve in some way. All the best to you. Keep practicing! Rand
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Post by chouse12 on Feb 23, 2011 22:38:50 GMT -5
I had the same problem. Hit impulse. Could be leading to a lot of problems in consistency. Do you feel you hit the ball fat too often? Too many mishits? I discovered that if I kept my breastbone still during transition I contacted the ball much better. That requires more rapid separation of the arms from the shoulders at the beginning of the down swing. I hit the ball fat from time to time and would probably blame this fault for hitting it fat. One thing that has worked for me in the past is taking really slow swings (still hitting a ball) and focusing on not letting my head dip, or having someone hold a club under my chin. Once I can get it a slower pace I start to pick up the speed. It's a part of the game unfortunately. Moving a half inch or inch away from the ball, getting your hands up a touch and flattening the back swing plane some can help as I understand it. Strengthening the muscles around the spine really helped me. Google "egoscue nicklaus". Jack Nicklaus had terrible back pain and SWORE by Egoscue's method. Site is www.egoscue.comOver the last 2-3 years, my swing has changed a lot. Now that I've made many of those changes, my back has improved quite a bit. Some of those changes include those that you mentioned, along with getting more centered and moving my hips into extension instead of staying in flexion post-impact. I'll also check out the egoscue website. As far as my grip goes, I've been working on keeping the pressure between my thumb and index finger's bottom knuckle and this has made a big difference (somewhat surprisingly to me). A result of keeping more pressure between the two has resulted in a slightly more neutral grip (palms closer to facing each other). I'll continue to see how this works with my ballstriking but so far it seems to be helping. Thanks for all the comments and suggestions.
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