Post by Richie3Jack on Dec 31, 2013 13:56:24 GMT -5
When I was a junior golfer and getting into the game the main golfers I had heard about as far as being able to strike the ball were Sam Snead, Ben Hogan and George Knudson. IIRC, Knudson was from Winnipeg which is close to Minnesota. Growing up in Upstate New York, I'm guessing Knudson's name got bandied about because he was Canadian and we were not too far from Canada. Still, I had never heard anything about Moe Norman until I read an article bout him in GOLF Magazine and then later on in Golf Digest. Moe was from Kitchener, Ontario which was only a few hours away. Anyway, the first time I saw his swing was in the swing sequence stills and I honestly didn't get it. I just thought his swing looked very weird, un-athletic and contrived. I actually thought the golf magazines were trying to play a Syd Finch type of practical joke on the readers. So, I left it at that.
Years went by and I had read a few more articles on Moe and one of college teammates was talking about how he and his father went to go to a clinic of his and had it on video. My buddy was telling how incredible Moe was. Eventually he showed the video tape and Moe comes out without saying a word and starts hitting balls. He looks like he's hitting a 7-iron about 140-150 yards. He's making good contact. There are no mannerisms that would make you believe he was hitting it poorly. Just rapid fire, shot after shot. Suddenly you start hearing the audience respond with some amazement and then clapping. The video then panned out to show what Moe was doing. He was hitting balls to a spot and they were forming into a small pile. He was then hitting his ball, repeatedly, onto that pile. From 140-150 yards away, I don't think people realize how that is almost impossible to execute.
I hear a lot of people degrade Moe's ability. Recently, I have been reading a lot about autism and it's really fascinating to learn about. It's far more prevalent in humans than people think. The thing is that it is not always bad. In fact, experts are certain that Einstein, Edison and Bill Gates all had certain forms and levels of autism. So it can provide a person with incredible skills and brain power, but it may leave them with troubles with social interaction. I used to think Moe was not autistic, but now after learning more about autism I am quite certain he had some form of autism. I think that allowed him to figure out the mechanics of the swing to produce a good shot and then being able to repeat those mechanics time after time.
The main criticism of Moe is his lack of play on the PGA Tour. However, people forget that the Canadian Tour was like the Web.com Tour today. In fact, I surmise that the *top* *tier* talent of the Canadian Tour was likely better than the top-tier talent of the Web.com. Mainly because back then the PGA Tour had only about 150 full time players. Today they have about 200 full-time players. And trying to get on Tour thru Q-School was a risky proposition. The PGA Tour Q-School used to be held twice a year, once in the fall and once in the Spring. And the Canadian Tour Q-School was roughly at the same time as the PGA Tour. Players often had to make a choice.
I think what settles it for me is a friend of mine played on the Canadian Tour and as bad luck would have it, the year he decided to get his amateur status back was the year that the Ben Hogan Tour (now Web.com Tour) was formed. In his first year as an amateur, he made the quarterfinals of the US Amateur before losing to eventual champion Justin Leonard. He also beat #1 ranked amateur in the world, Manny Zerman, in the previous match. He dominated the rest of the amateur tournaments that he played in. And he did it all the while working 3 different jobs and only playing and practicing once a week, on Sunday. There is no doubt in my mind had there been a Web.com Tour and some financial backing, he would have gone on to make the PGA Tour and probably get at least 1 win. He was just another failed Canadian Tour player. But as an amateur working 3 jobs and practicing once a week (in Upstate NY where you might get 4 good months of weather if you're lucky), he flat out dominated.
I often laugh when I hear people say 'well, Moe didn't hit it far.' Then I ask when they saw him hit balls. They usually say in the early to mid-90's, when Moe was in his 60's. They will say that he was hitting it about 250 yards off the tee. A 60 year old man hitting a metal wood 250 yards. Oh yeah, that metal wood weighed over 16 ounces. That's over 450 grams. I play with a 337 gram driver that is considered to be very heavy. Moe was hitting a driver that weighted almost 120 grams more than mine.
Anyway, I chose this swing because I think it best represents Moe. I think this was taken back in 1955.
Moe's swing does not look all that unorthodox here. The big unorthodox pieces are the address, his keeping the right foot down well after impact and his follow thru. Moe believed you should direct your follow thru where you want the ball to go. Moe also liked having a tremendous amount of lower body slide. He had a very wide stance and it is easier to slide that lower body more with a wide stance than it is with a narrow stance. If you look at the caddy view, you can align his left hip with the chair that is behind him. As he gets to p5.5 the hip has moved much closer to that chair.
And I think that is a big part of Moe's swing, the wide stance at p1 and how he incorporates the lower body action with that wide stance.
We see Moe with a very stable head here, particularly if you look at the caddy view. In order to do that the left shoulder turns downward and the rear knee straightens to get the right hip and right knee higher than the left hip and left knee. I believe if Moe did not keep that right foot on the ground for as long as he did, he would have had issues with consistency. I think with his stance so wide that the right foot had to stay down or he would likely 'spin out..'
What we also see at address is that he stood a long ways away from the ball. And what that later affected is that it forced the hand path in the backswing to go inside and in order to get the shaft pointing at the baseline, the shaft plane had to be a very flat angle as well. We can see this flat shaft plane from the DTL at p3 and p5.
I find p6 very interesting because he has certainly straightened the right arm and the shaft plane is still flat, but the left arm is jutted well out. Again, I feel that this is due to the address position.
Then at impact we have a large CF move, but with the hips and torso open. Since Moe was known for making great contact and hitting it straight, I believe his path was at 0* and his face was at 0* as well. And that he probably hit well upward on the ball given that he was known for hitting off of Coke bottles and never breaking tees (as Moe would say, my job is to hit the ball, not the tee).
For the average golfer, I would pay attention to his lower body action without the wide stance. I also like how he really releases the #1 Power Accumulator (right arm straightening. There are some unorthodox pieces here, but a lot of stuff that, IMO, is very nice.
3JACK
Years went by and I had read a few more articles on Moe and one of college teammates was talking about how he and his father went to go to a clinic of his and had it on video. My buddy was telling how incredible Moe was. Eventually he showed the video tape and Moe comes out without saying a word and starts hitting balls. He looks like he's hitting a 7-iron about 140-150 yards. He's making good contact. There are no mannerisms that would make you believe he was hitting it poorly. Just rapid fire, shot after shot. Suddenly you start hearing the audience respond with some amazement and then clapping. The video then panned out to show what Moe was doing. He was hitting balls to a spot and they were forming into a small pile. He was then hitting his ball, repeatedly, onto that pile. From 140-150 yards away, I don't think people realize how that is almost impossible to execute.
I hear a lot of people degrade Moe's ability. Recently, I have been reading a lot about autism and it's really fascinating to learn about. It's far more prevalent in humans than people think. The thing is that it is not always bad. In fact, experts are certain that Einstein, Edison and Bill Gates all had certain forms and levels of autism. So it can provide a person with incredible skills and brain power, but it may leave them with troubles with social interaction. I used to think Moe was not autistic, but now after learning more about autism I am quite certain he had some form of autism. I think that allowed him to figure out the mechanics of the swing to produce a good shot and then being able to repeat those mechanics time after time.
The main criticism of Moe is his lack of play on the PGA Tour. However, people forget that the Canadian Tour was like the Web.com Tour today. In fact, I surmise that the *top* *tier* talent of the Canadian Tour was likely better than the top-tier talent of the Web.com. Mainly because back then the PGA Tour had only about 150 full time players. Today they have about 200 full-time players. And trying to get on Tour thru Q-School was a risky proposition. The PGA Tour Q-School used to be held twice a year, once in the fall and once in the Spring. And the Canadian Tour Q-School was roughly at the same time as the PGA Tour. Players often had to make a choice.
I think what settles it for me is a friend of mine played on the Canadian Tour and as bad luck would have it, the year he decided to get his amateur status back was the year that the Ben Hogan Tour (now Web.com Tour) was formed. In his first year as an amateur, he made the quarterfinals of the US Amateur before losing to eventual champion Justin Leonard. He also beat #1 ranked amateur in the world, Manny Zerman, in the previous match. He dominated the rest of the amateur tournaments that he played in. And he did it all the while working 3 different jobs and only playing and practicing once a week, on Sunday. There is no doubt in my mind had there been a Web.com Tour and some financial backing, he would have gone on to make the PGA Tour and probably get at least 1 win. He was just another failed Canadian Tour player. But as an amateur working 3 jobs and practicing once a week (in Upstate NY where you might get 4 good months of weather if you're lucky), he flat out dominated.
I often laugh when I hear people say 'well, Moe didn't hit it far.' Then I ask when they saw him hit balls. They usually say in the early to mid-90's, when Moe was in his 60's. They will say that he was hitting it about 250 yards off the tee. A 60 year old man hitting a metal wood 250 yards. Oh yeah, that metal wood weighed over 16 ounces. That's over 450 grams. I play with a 337 gram driver that is considered to be very heavy. Moe was hitting a driver that weighted almost 120 grams more than mine.
Anyway, I chose this swing because I think it best represents Moe. I think this was taken back in 1955.
Moe's swing does not look all that unorthodox here. The big unorthodox pieces are the address, his keeping the right foot down well after impact and his follow thru. Moe believed you should direct your follow thru where you want the ball to go. Moe also liked having a tremendous amount of lower body slide. He had a very wide stance and it is easier to slide that lower body more with a wide stance than it is with a narrow stance. If you look at the caddy view, you can align his left hip with the chair that is behind him. As he gets to p5.5 the hip has moved much closer to that chair.
And I think that is a big part of Moe's swing, the wide stance at p1 and how he incorporates the lower body action with that wide stance.
We see Moe with a very stable head here, particularly if you look at the caddy view. In order to do that the left shoulder turns downward and the rear knee straightens to get the right hip and right knee higher than the left hip and left knee. I believe if Moe did not keep that right foot on the ground for as long as he did, he would have had issues with consistency. I think with his stance so wide that the right foot had to stay down or he would likely 'spin out..'
What we also see at address is that he stood a long ways away from the ball. And what that later affected is that it forced the hand path in the backswing to go inside and in order to get the shaft pointing at the baseline, the shaft plane had to be a very flat angle as well. We can see this flat shaft plane from the DTL at p3 and p5.
I find p6 very interesting because he has certainly straightened the right arm and the shaft plane is still flat, but the left arm is jutted well out. Again, I feel that this is due to the address position.
Then at impact we have a large CF move, but with the hips and torso open. Since Moe was known for making great contact and hitting it straight, I believe his path was at 0* and his face was at 0* as well. And that he probably hit well upward on the ball given that he was known for hitting off of Coke bottles and never breaking tees (as Moe would say, my job is to hit the ball, not the tee).
For the average golfer, I would pay attention to his lower body action without the wide stance. I also like how he really releases the #1 Power Accumulator (right arm straightening. There are some unorthodox pieces here, but a lot of stuff that, IMO, is very nice.
3JACK
