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Post by imperfectgolfer on Mar 24, 2010 10:19:35 GMT -5
Teddy,
I disagree. I think that Joe has a large problem with his takeaway that causes him to have a large reverse slot swing problem. It is true that one can come OTT without a reverse slot swing backswing action, but it is much more common in reverse slot swing golfers.
I think that you are totally wrong in your "belief" that a RFT will prevent the backswing pivot action from happening in the "correct" manner. In my backswing chapter I described my preferred pivot action, and one can easily perform a rightwards-centered backswing action - whether one uses a RFT or an one-piece takeaway.
Jeff.
p.s. I am leaving for an overseas trip in a few hours, and I may not be able to post another post for the next 10 days. However, I will comment further if possible.
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Post by jonnygrouville on Mar 24, 2010 21:46:09 GMT -5
So we've established that the address, backswing, transition, downswing and impact are all important. Probably not going to help your over-analysing problem eh? Clearly, impact is the priority and that should be the focus. There are people here going down the Lag module approach. Their having a lot of success, but I think this is a tricky path to follow alone without actually being involved in the modules. I have found Manzella's flipping video the best source for concepts and drills for someone independently wanting to improve where they are at impact. Working backwards, there are things you can think of in the transition. However, I see the transition as a reaction to the backswing. With your backswing, the natural reaction is going to be the re-route over the top of where you were on the way back. No problem with that. Lots of people have played good golf from there. But you don't seem to be having much luck with it at the moment eh? I think you can look at your backswing to put yourself in better shape to achieve the impact you are after more regularly. For me, that would be working out a way to find a more natural plane, whether it is the right forearm takeaway or whatever. Find the drills that suit you best and keep an eye on them with the camera. You are clearly an analytical guy. You need a plan. Seriously. Pick the things you are going to follow for the next six months, write them down and stick to that plan! Something like two things to keep an eye on at address, two thoughts or drills for the backswing and two drills on impact. As a swing-junkie (swunkie?) myself, this is tough, but worth it for making serious changes to your swing and your game. (And have a good trip Jeff!)
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Post by TeddyIrons on Mar 25, 2010 1:51:27 GMT -5
Teddy, I think that you are totally wrong in your "belief" that a RFT will prevent the backswing pivot action from happening in the "correct" manner. In my backswing chapter I described my preferred pivot action, and one can easily perform a rightwards-centered backswing action - whether one uses a RFT or an one-piece takeaway. Jeff. p.s. I am leaving for an overseas trip in a few hours, and I may not be able to post another post for the next 10 days. However, I will comment further if possible. Jeff, I didn't say that the RFT will prevent the backswing pivot action from happening in the correct manner. Far from it, it is a very good way to get a golfer on a good plane going back. I only question it's helpfulness in creating some pivot lag in the transition. Have a good trip.
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Post by joeunc on Mar 25, 2010 7:19:45 GMT -5
Very good info,, thanks I think what I am going to do is try to "feel" like my swing is a little shorter. I get great compression, straight ball flights, better plane when I am trying to hit like a 9 iron 120yds. Kind of like the TGM basic and acquired motion. Doing these things is where my impact alignments feel the most solid. I could be right in the middle of the fairway 150yd marker, and hit my 8 and be a terrible chunked, think , pulled shot. Then I would be say 60yds and i feel so comfortable with a little baby pitching wedge. It takes very little effort, just turn compress and it flies straight and with perfect contact and it barely feels like I had to actually swing the club. For me, I like to envision I have Slicefixers extended club drill going on with a dowel sticking out the butt end of the club and that dowel can't hit my left side until say a finish swivel. I try to get a little "baby" pivot which may be enough since I was over rotated before. Then lead with the hands and turn through. I think a shorter smoother swing with contact in the sweetspot is better than a flailing wind up try to kill it move. I am going to work on those little swings trying to hit longer clubs shorter distances, and then try to add a little more pivot slowly, a little more "whip", a tad more turn and see if it progresses. Try to impact alignments good, while slowly increasing the swing. If I digress I will have to make myself go right back to the easy smooth shorter swing. At the end of every range session, I always go the short area and probably do 100 or more TGM basic and acquired motion shots, with PW, LW, 7, 8. It's also the most pure contact I have. For ingraining a better backswing plane, I tried this Faldo drill yesterday and it definitely felt like my hands were higher: www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6QtMgkK6zI&feature=PlayList&p=CF427725748D25CA&index=4However, I am sure my pivot was stalling as I was hitting big high pulls doing it, closed club face, path out to in. Or I was steep, burying the club behind the ball really deep. I do think that the feeling of that drill will help get the plane a little better. thanks Joe So we've established that the address, backswing, transition, downswing and impact are all important. Probably not going to help your over-analysing problem eh? Clearly, impact is the priority and that should be the focus. There are people here going down the Lag module approach. Their having a lot of success, but I think this is a tricky path to follow alone without actually being involved in the modules. I have found Manzella's flipping video the best source for concepts and drills for someone independently wanting to improve where they are at impact. Working backwards, there are things you can think of in the transition. However, I see the transition as a reaction to the backswing. With your backswing, the natural reaction is going to be the re-route over the top of where you were on the way back. No problem with that. Lots of people have played good golf from there. But you don't seem to be having much luck with it at the moment eh? I think you can look at your backswing to put yourself in better shape to achieve the impact you are after more regularly. For me, that would be working out a way to find a more natural plane, whether it is the right forearm takeaway or whatever. Find the drills that suit you best and keep an eye on them with the camera. You are clearly an analytical guy. You need a plan. Seriously. Pick the things you are going to follow for the next six months, write them down and stick to that plan! Something like two things to keep an eye on at address, two thoughts or drills for the backswing and two drills on impact. As a swing-junkie (swunkie?) myself, this is tough, but worth it for making serious changes to your swing and your game. (And have a good trip Jeff!)
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Post by nothere on Mar 25, 2010 13:20:32 GMT -5
Hi Joe, here's my 2 cents, all the backswing comments you know like you take it inside and over rotate the lead arm etc. The question is why?
Your swing is almost identical to mine and what i did to fix the takeaway/ backswing is i realized that i was locking my arms to my shoulders in an attempt to do a one piece b.s.
My lead arm was following my shoulder turn and since i turned my shoulders flattish guess what. Now you may not be trying to do a one piece b.s. but your arms are following the turn of your shoulders with very little up.
Okay, you know all that, so what's my point? On the downswing you have no seperation between your lead arm and your head/neck area it's like their stuck together.
Hence the over move. Body rotates outwards, arms locked to body, arms go out too much and not down enough. Not enough drop.
You need some arm swing independent of your body turn. The lead arm needs to swing more up in the b.s. and more down in the d.s. independent of your body rotation, to a point, i'm not advocating just lifting the club straight up and down with no pivot, but your taking the club around behind you without sufficient up. The blend between the up and around is heavy on the around side.
Sorry for the long post. More like a buck's worth than 2 cents. ;D Jeff Mann has a video on youtube, #3 on how to power the swing i believe, that touches on this. Manzella also has a video catch the drop with the pivot and also one on the up needed in the b.s.
I know there's people that can swing flattish and others upright, you need to find the blend that works for you and the blend you have now isn't. All the best.
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Post by joeunc on Mar 25, 2010 14:10:09 GMT -5
thanks. had my best range session at lunch today in a while. I definitively was more up on the backswing. My thoughts were: 1) sound grip- a hair stronger than neutral 2) reverse K setup 3) right forearm more up on the backswing, club looking at ball longer, no escessive pronation of the left forearm
At first I was feeling a little disconnected and armsy so then I put a small towel under left armpit and I could really feel that connected rotation back to the left.
Then all I said to myself was rotate,,,,rotate...
Straight , high flight. No crazy curve balls or hosel shanks. The times I missed where thinned or hit behind ball. I attributed this to me not getting that 2nd rotate back in to get to a firm left side, pivot issues. Next I would really make sure to rotate back to the left and the contact was much better.
Afterward I even went over to the swing mirror for a DTL look and at the top I was nowhere near behind me with the club. Hands were more up between the ear and shoulder. And the swing appeared to be shorter. Meaning I didn't over rotate inside and get all crazy long and off balance.
Still need better impact alignments as I did have throwaway at times. But the shots were playable as they were straight. I was like "wow I could actually use the same ball for the whole round like that!"
Let's hope I can remember those swings and that feel, as I have 4 rounds over the next 5 days with the in-laws and such.
I then went over to the short game area and did the customary 100 TGM basic motions mixed with some acquired motions with the 60' and PW.
thanks Jioe
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Post by nothere on Mar 25, 2010 16:02:07 GMT -5
thanks. had my best range session at lunch today in a while. I definitively was more up on the backswing. My thoughts were: 1) sound grip- a hair stronger than neutral 2) reverse K setup 3) right forearm more up on the backswing, club looking at ball longer, no escessive pronation of the left forearm At first I was feeling a little disconnected and armsy so then I put a small towel under left armpit and I could really feel that connected rotation back to the left. Then all I said to myself was rotate,,,,rotate... Straight , high flight. No crazy curve balls or hosel shanks. The times I missed where thinned or hit behind ball. I attributed this to me not getting that 2nd rotate back in to get to a firm left side, pivot issues. Next I would really make sure to rotate back to the left and the contact was much better. Afterward I even went over to the swing mirror for a DTL look and at the top I was nowhere near behind me with the club. Hands were more up between the ear and shoulder. And the swing appeared to be shorter. Meaning I didn't over rotate inside and get all crazy long and off balance. Still need better impact alignments as I did have throwaway at times. But the shots were playable as they were straight. I was like "wow I could actually use the same ball for the whole round like that!" Let's hope I can remember those swings and that feel, as I have 4 rounds over the next 5 days with the in-laws and such. I then went over to the short game area and did the customary 100 TGM basic motions mixed with some acquired motions with the 60' and PW. thanks Jioe Sounds like your on the right track, keep "up" the good work.
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Post by Richie3Jack on Mar 25, 2010 19:14:13 GMT -5
I think the takeaway isn't helping, but I think the very flat shoulder turn on the backswing is giving you issues.
I also think you would do better with pitch elbow and improving your footwork and knee action.
You get a little bit of disconnection with the #4 PP in the takeaway and then bend your wrists inside and then get really flat with the shoulder turn. I don't think it has to be a super steep shoulder turn, just steeper than you already are and keep that #4 PP in tact. I would then work on getting into pitch elbow and once that gets down, really work on the footwork and knee action.
3JACK
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Post by joeunc on Mar 30, 2010 13:14:57 GMT -5
pitch elbow,,a place I have never seen. It would seem this vid: www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6QtMgkK6....48D25CA&index=4would help, as it pre-sets that pitch elbow. Play was inconsistent over the 4 day weekend. Some good and some bad as could be expected when you are really working on your game. A few times I may have gotten too up with the backswing and not enough around as I was not getting pronation of the left arm and laying the face on the plane. Caused some really steep digs, some off the hosel, and some thin/toppped shots. Seems like if I get to high on the back it's harder to get a good pivot. I get stuck on the right side and wind up leaning back and lifting and thinning the shots.
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Post by gmbtempe on Mar 30, 2010 14:08:10 GMT -5
video line came up bad
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Post by joeunc on Mar 30, 2010 15:00:23 GMT -5
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Post by pavaveda on Apr 16, 2010 20:31:40 GMT -5
Could joeunc simply shorten his backswing? It appears that once he gets to the top of his swing, that's when it starts to lose control. If he tried taking 3/4 swings as his standard swing it would simplify his swing, he could then focus on keeping shaft flex into impact, make sure he's coming in to out, and there you go! It's so easy, right?
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Post by joeunc on Apr 17, 2010 8:20:46 GMT -5
that is what I am doing. Usually as you know you have to think exagerated to get even a little change, I am thinking "smooth pitches with a pivot and release the club" It has gotten better, I don't have any new vids. I was so good at little 30 or 40yd shots with good impact alignments. But when I took the whold swing it all went astray and I was everywhere. I have always flipped as well, except on those 30 to 80 yd shots, so I constantly working on that. I just picked up something that looks promising. Do a youtube search on the impact snap device.
I was never really supinating the left hand into impact and covering the ball. This device teaches lag, supination and ulnar deviation.
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