joec
'88 Apex Redlines
Posts: 161
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Post by joec on Apr 6, 2010 14:29:24 GMT -5
what is a verticle drop? can i work on it using a mirror. if so, how.
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Post by gmbtempe on Apr 6, 2010 14:38:40 GMT -5
what is a verticle drop? can i work on it using a mirror. if so, how. when I think of vertical drop I think about the hands dropping down dramatically at the start of the downswing, I guess Quiros might be a good example. Other than that not sure what the terms actual teaching definition is. |
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Post by nothere on Apr 6, 2010 15:25:12 GMT -5
what is a verticle drop? can i work on it using a mirror. if so, how. when I think of vertical drop I think about the hands dropping down dramatically at the start of the downswing, I guess Quiros might be a good example. Other than that not sure what the terms actual teaching definition is. Do you use this in your swing? |
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Post by gmbtempe on Apr 6, 2010 15:35:56 GMT -5
when I think of vertical drop I think about the hands dropping down dramatically at the start of the downswing, I guess Quiros might be a good example. Other than that not sure what the terms actual teaching definition is. Do you use this in your swing? not intentionally, I tend to drop them where I would like them to work more out to the ball. |
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Post by nothere on Apr 6, 2010 15:40:04 GMT -5
Do you use this in your swing? not intentionally, I tend to drop them where I would like them to work more out to the ball. Is that because of where they are located in your b.s.? or another reason. |
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Post by gmbtempe on Apr 6, 2010 15:57:05 GMT -5
not intentionally, I tend to drop them where I would like them to work more out to the ball. Is that because of where they are located in your b.s.? or another reason. I tend to the think people with a lot of drop get the hands high but certainly it can happen from any location, sergio drops them good before rotating like a crazy. when my hands drop, my right shoulder drops and I tend to get the head behind the ball, lots of axis tilts and hit hooks. |
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Post by nothere on Apr 6, 2010 16:13:09 GMT -5
Okay, thanks.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Apr 6, 2010 16:37:48 GMT -5
I think that many golfers think that "vertical drop of the hands" in the early downswing is due to gravity. I actually think that it is due to right upper arm adduction that is disproportionately large per unit time relative to the amount of upper torso rotation per unit time.  Note how Sergio Garcia's hands drop from the TSP to the elbow plane at the start of the downswing before he has any significant upper torso rotation. Jeff. |
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Post by TeddyIrons on Apr 10, 2010 11:23:23 GMT -5
I think the verticial drop can be either passive or active.
Passive means that you are moving your lower body to initiate the downswing, and your upper torso turns into your arms which drop due to gravity. The amount of verticial drop in this case will be limited.
Then there is the active vertical drop which I think Sergio is doing. A straightening of the right arm away from the target as he initiates the downswing. This kind of vertical drop will need a very powerful pivot in my opinion.
If you look at Sergio in the sequence Jeff has posted, you'll see that his shoulders have turned only a very small amount, while his hips have turned almost 45 degrees, with the torso making pressure against the left armpit. All of this allows a very distinctive vertical drop in my opinion.
I also think it's easier to do the vertical drop from a slightly more laid off position.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Apr 12, 2010 11:53:01 GMT -5
It is true that a dropping of the hands could theoretically be non-active and due to gravity alone. However, I strongly suspect that it not really possible in a pitch elbow swing motion - considering the speed of a professional golfer's swing. Also, keeping the right elbow bent at 90 degrees in the early downswing would not necessarily happen if the hands dropped due to gravity. "Something" must be getting the right elbow to lead the hands in the downswing - as demonstrated by Hogan in this posed photo.  I believe that the right elbow drops groundwards faster than the hands because of an active right arm adduction movement, and I belive that this motion is needed to keep the right forearm flying wedge alignment "correct" relative to the left arm flying wedge. Jeff. |
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Post by TeddyIrons on Apr 12, 2010 13:05:08 GMT -5
Good points Jeff, something I've been mulling over is how active the right elbow is in getting into pitch position.
I also wonder whether for shorter golfers like Ben Hogan, it is easier to get into a pitch elbow position, while at the same time having clubs set a few degrees flat.
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Post by joeunc on Apr 13, 2010 8:34:55 GMT -5
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Apr 13, 2010 10:06:01 GMT -5
Joe,
The photos in that article (especially the animated Alvaros Quiro photo and animated Lucas Glover photo) show what is really happening with respect to the right elbow.
However, I would never label those movements "micro-moves" that are dependent on an individual golfer's DNA (whatever that means). I believe that they are macro-moves due to simple human biomechanics. To get the right elbow to lead the hands in the downswing, one needs to adduct, and internally rotate, the right humerus - while maintaining the bend in the right elbow.
Jeff.
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Post by joeunc on Apr 13, 2010 13:04:57 GMT -5
whether micro-moves or biomechanics. You both mention the adduction part. You say tomAt0 I say tomAWt0 kind of thing. Semantics shouldn't cloud the actual point we are trying to garner.
I find a lot his articles every interesting, he has lots of experience with physiology and training athletes in a new and different ways. He also has some very fresh thoughts on the golf swing from a motor movement point of view, and on top of that he loves to bask Haney.
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