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Post by imperfectgolfer on Jan 31, 2010 1:33:43 GMT -5
starretj
You wrote-: "From the top of the backswing, as long as you are pulling, then the force is not into the #3 pp. If you are feeling lag pressure at the #3 pp, you are pushing with your right hand, it is the only way possible."
I disagree, and I harbor a different opinion.
In a left arm swinger, the left hand pulls the club (via PP#2). However, the right hand has to keep up with left hand/grip throughout the entire downswing - and it does that via an active adduction of the right upper arm in the early/mid downswing and via a straightening right elbow action in the late downswing. That push-force is only applied at PP#1 (and not PP#3). A sensation of lag pressure is felt at PP#3 as long as the clubhead lags behind the hands in a left arm swinger. That lag pressure sensation will disappear if clubhead throwaway (flipping) occurs.
By contrast, a hitter applies a drive-loading push-force at both PP#1 and PP#3 during the downswing, and any sensation of lag pressure at PP#3 reflects this active push-force (rather than reflecting clubhead lag as occurs in a swinger).
Jeff.
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Post by starretj on Jan 31, 2010 10:15:28 GMT -5
Thanks Jeff, just playing around with a club here a little, the adduction of the right arm does seem to increase the lag pressure at pp#3. Does the adduction seem to correspond with a pitch elbow? I thought I noticed this but, I don't want to assume to much. If adduction of the right arm does correlate to a pitch elbow position, would someone like Jim Furyk be the other end of the spectrum, say abduction and a punch elbow?
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Jan 31, 2010 10:36:46 GMT -5
Starretj
An active adduction movement of the right upper arm brings the right elbow closer to the right hip area. It will usually reach the pitch elbow position if the timing of right upper arm adduction relative to torso rotation is optimal. Jim Furyk's end-backswing right elbow position is so high that he gets his right elbow behind his right hip area, rather than in front of his right hip area - despite an assertive right upper arm adduction movement. By the time Furyk gets his right elbow down, he has already rotated his right hip around and he has no "space" for his right elbow to slide in front of his right hip. It is closer to the position that a hitter, who uses a punch elbow motion, will get his right elbow. During the late downswing, Furyk rotates his torso and right forearm/elbow (which is alongside the right hip area) as an unit towards the target.
Abduction is a motion of the right upper arm away from the right side of the torso and it occurs to a variable degree in the backswing. Golfers who use the one-piece takeaway have more right upper abduction during the backswing than a golfer who uses a right forearm takeaway.
Jeff.
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beaker
Beat up Radials
Posts: 16
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Post by beaker on Feb 15, 2010 13:05:59 GMT -5
Hi....newbie T.G.Mer here.......can anyone tell me how to start down using the swinging technique please?
I've seen it on another site that you slam the back of your right hand into the ground outside your right foot and centrifugal force squares the clubface. Is this correct and if yes,how do i maintain pressure in the pp3? Is this pressure point more suited to hitting?
Would love any advice, Thanks, Beaker.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 15, 2010 13:25:46 GMT -5
You wrote-: " From the top of the backswing, as long as you are pulling, then the force is not into the #3 pp. If you are feeling lag pressure at the #3 pp, you are pushing with your right hand, it is the only way possible."
I disagree.
Here is my personal opinion. In a swinger's downswing action, the left hand pulls the club (drag-loads the club). While this is happening, the right hand must keep up with the left hand (via a right upper arm adduction movement in the early downswing and a right arm straightening action in the later downswing) and that causes the right hand to apply push-pressure at PP#1 (and not PP#3). I believe that lag pressure is continuously sensed at PP#3 during the entire downswing, because the clubhead lags behind the hands. I believe that PP#3 can sense lag pressure in a swinger even though the right hand is applying a push-pressure at PP#1. By contrast, a TGM hitter drive-loads the clubshaft and applies push-pressure at PP#3 as well as PP#1, and he therefore cannot purely "sense" lag pressure at PP#3.
Jeff.
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Post by golfbaka on Feb 18, 2010 4:58:56 GMT -5
Mudball,
The quickest way to understand TGM would be to get Lynn Blake's 'Alignment Golf' - if you're not convinced watch through the Colin Neeman series on YouTube a couple of times.
If you're looking for pure TGM answers to your questions use the search feature on Lynn Blake's forum reading specifically Lynn's quotes.
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jerryg
'88 Apex Redlines
Posts: 100
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Post by jerryg on Feb 18, 2010 9:43:41 GMT -5
Mudball, Somewhere above you mentioned you wanted to keep from over swinging and also the loosey-goosey wrists, I believe. PRESSURE, to me, is the key. The PBS helps with the constant application of pressure into the shaft with pp#3. That has been a huge key for me--the continuing and increasing application of pressure into the shaft well past impact. If I could just turn it into habit...
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Post by gmbtempe on Feb 18, 2010 9:50:08 GMT -5
Mudball, Somewhere above you mentioned you wanted to keep from over swinging and also the loosey-goosey wrists, I believe. PRESSURE, to me, is the key. The PBS helps with the constant application of pressure into the shaft with pp#3. That has been a huge key for me--the continuing and increasing application of pressure into the shaft well past impact. If I could just turn it into habit... while I totally agree with everything you wrote what I found from my own personal experience is that if you have some flaws in your swing, flaws that get you out of position, then having good pressure on PP#3 gets difficult, if not impossible. I know Jeff Evans a little bit who owns and created the PBS aid. I created just the perfect basic motion stroke with great pressure on pp#3. I could do this motion correctly all day but when it got to the full swing it just did not happen. The flaws in my swing, which in short terms where head sway off ball, drop and slide staying back behind the ball, then running out of right arm....FLIP. Physics took over, even though I understood pp#3 and FLW, flying wedges. Your body is going to seek balance and the compensations to hit the ball. So training with the PBS and pp#3 is a great tool just pointing out there maybe some bigger issues that need fixing as well.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 18, 2010 11:10:10 GMT -5
Jerry,
You wrote-: "The PBS helps with the constant application of pressure into the shaft with pp#3. That has been a huge key for me--the continuing and increasing application of pressure into the shaft well past impact."
If you are "feeling" a strong sense of pressure at PP#3 after impact, then you must be drive-loading the shaft through impact, which means that you must be a hitter and not a TGM swinger. A TGM swinger uses PP#3 to sense clubhead lag pressure prior to impact. After impact, that lag pressure sensation has to disappear - because the clubhead is no longer lagging behind the hands.
Jeff.
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Post by gmbtempe on Feb 18, 2010 11:16:11 GMT -5
Jerry, You wrote-: "The PBS helps with the constant application of pressure into the shaft with pp#3. That has been a huge key for me--the continuing and increasing application of pressure into the shaft well past impact." If you are "feeling" a strong sense of pressure at PP#3 after impact, then you must be drive-loading the shaft through impact, which means that you must be a hitter and not a TGM swinger. A TGM swinger uses PP#3 to sense clubhead lag pressure prior to impact. After impact, that lag pressure sensation has to disappear - because the clubhead is no longer lagging behind the hands. Jeff. This is why I think more people are hitters than they think through impact......I would say though that you will feel pressure on pp#3 through impact while the club goes from impact to low point as a swinger.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 18, 2010 12:13:05 GMT -5
Greg,
You wrote-: "I would say though that you will feel pressure on pp#3 through impact while the club goes from impact to low point as a swinger."
That is 100% true because the clubhead should only catch-up to the hands at low point in a swinging action (double pendulum swing action). Therefore, and concurrently, the amount of PP#3 lag pressure sensation felt by a swinger at impact will be greater the further the ball is positioned behind low point - because the clubshaft has more forward shaft lean at impact.
Jeff.
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Post by jonnygrouville on Feb 22, 2010 20:49:51 GMT -5
I agree with the comments that the feel on pressure points can be influenced by other flaws in the swing. Halfway back, the feeling of pressure in Jim Furyk's hands will be very different from someone with a flatter backswing (not saying these are flaws, just that it will be different). Just as the club will feel different with an arched or bowed wrist at the top.
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