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Post by cloran on Aug 27, 2010 8:34:47 GMT -5
www.thegolfchannel.com/instructor-search/?userId=&firstName=&lastName=&emailAddressYou have to scroll down to "Peter Stern" in Kings Park, NY. He has his academy at a driving range by my house (not where he did the filming btw... the range is all mats and dirt, lol). He's a very nice guy... but watching his swing made me remember just how much he screwed me up, lol. Every time I'd go to hit balls he'd stop by and chat. Offering a few tips here and there... It's no wonder I was moving so far off the ball in my back swing a few years ago! How are guys still teaching like this? Clement's video is good. But seriously, who could compete with Manzella? Clement maybe, but that's about it. BM needs to get a video up there asap! Dana Bates put up a video. She was on the Big Break a while ago.... but so far from SC or BM in terms of content and delivery it's pathetic. One of the "Featured Videos" is from a "golf fatatic." Seriously, Golf Channel? Listening to him tell me what to work on is like listening to me tell you what's wrong with your car because I really like to drive them. PLEASE, GOLF CHANNEL... PICK SOMEONE WHO KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT!!!!
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Post by pavaveda on Aug 27, 2010 9:42:06 GMT -5
Actually, as I was watching those last night (I didn't watch Clement b/c I was trying to see if anyone else was any good), I was thinking that maybe the best thing to do is get a bunch of people together to vote up the WORST video. Why? Because I think that if you see enough mediocre instruction it's easy to brush it off and kind of say that the instructor doesn't know what they are talking about, etc. etc. And nothing ever changes. BUT if it's bad, and I mean really bad, it should be so obvious. THEN what happens is that people start to realize that the stuff that the BAD instructor is saying is the SAME as what their mediocre instructor is saying and they'll start to question ALL of the instruction. Once people start to question the status quo instruction, THEN you'll see an improvement because THEN the cream will rise to the top.
Was just a thought because I fear that no matter what happens, not much is going to change. On the bright side, it should keep the good instructors prices down for those of us who are willing to seek them out.
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Post by TeddyIrons on Aug 27, 2010 10:33:05 GMT -5
What was wrong with Peter Stern's video? I didn't disagree with much of what he said, but of course it all depends on what kind of swing you have. It certainly wouldn't help a Stack'n'tilter. The error of that site is that you have a whole host of instructors that offer advice that is going to be contradictory - it will all depend on what pattern you have as to whether the advice is good or not. Peter Stern's advice is actually not far from what Lag teaches in module 6 - the drill of bowing to the 4:30 to get a feel of where the backswing should go is something Lag shows us. For ABS it is relevant because we want to feel the 4:30 line and we want a full shoulder turn and we prefer not to have the hands high. I can see why Stern's advice would not be good for many players but in of itself I don't think it's bad advice.
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Post by cloran on Aug 27, 2010 10:46:24 GMT -5
I agree Teddy, it's not necessariy "wrong," but my dismay has more to do with HOW it is relayed. I know it's asking too much, but I really wish these guys would first say: "This is not how you HAVE to do it... there are plenty of other ways... but this is how I choose to teach."
I have more of a personal reaction becasue when I was working on NOT swaying in the back swing he was having me move off the ball A LOT! Killed me.
To see that he still ONLY teaches that way is disheartening... and Lag would certainly not want any of his students moving their upper COGs like that.
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Post by TeddyIrons on Aug 27, 2010 10:53:22 GMT -5
I wouldn't call it swaying off the ball, it's more that the upper body moves quite a bit to the right. (Swaying I associate with the hips - something I used to suffer). I think it's normal that the upper body and thus head will move to the right a bit - he exagerates the move in his video though - there's an easy way to prevent this keeping the same type of backswing, which is to start with the shoulders already closed, bowing a little to the 4:30 line - if you do that there is less movement to the right in the upper body and you create some axis tilt more easily in the downswing. It's not too dissimilar to what Sean Clement advocates.
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Post by cloran on Aug 27, 2010 11:11:47 GMT -5
I don't know... I don't see SC's head or Lag's head move THAT much off the ball. An inch or two, MAYBE.
Pete teaches more of the "turn your left shoulder over your right knee" back swing. Watch his swing at the end and see how much he moves away from the ball. Try getting back to impact consistently from there.
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Post by TeddyIrons on Aug 27, 2010 11:23:26 GMT -5
I think one of the reasons that Lag's and SC's heads don't move much is because of how they set up (slightly closed).
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Post by pavaveda on Aug 27, 2010 11:31:51 GMT -5
Pete teaches more of the "turn your left shoulder over your right knee" back swing. Watch his swing at the end and see how much he moves away from the ball. I was watching NSA last night, and BM teaches this move.
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Post by cloran on Aug 27, 2010 11:58:44 GMT -5
Pete teaches more of the "turn your left shoulder over your right knee" back swing. Watch his swing at the end and see how much he moves away from the ball. I was watching NSA last night, and BM teaches this move. There's a difference though. BM CAN teact that move... the other guy ALWAYS teaches it.
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Post by Richie3Jack on Aug 27, 2010 14:24:56 GMT -5
The videos I've seen so far have not been that great in presentation or delivery. Shawn Clement's has been the best so far in those. While I don't like Michael Breed, his presentation and delivery is quite good. He does talk to loud and that probably discourages a some people from watching his show, but I'd rather be just a bit loud than to have the perfect pitch and a lousy presentation.
Kind of difficult to know what TGC is looking for. I would imagine they'll want to find ways to cure the slice and add power, those are the two big things golfers look for. So far I'd say Clement is in the lead by a wide margin. And I have to give him credit, those YouTube videos really helped him practice for this
3JACK
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Post by siegler on Aug 28, 2010 1:43:04 GMT -5
I think that Erika is the favorite once they get to the bathing suit competition.
I'll be curious to see Manzella's entry. He did have a new video up on Youtube that was quite good, but probably not great for this target audience.
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Post by gmbtempe on Aug 28, 2010 11:57:46 GMT -5
I think that Erika is the favorite once they get to the bathing suit competition. I'll be curious to see Manzella's entry. He did have a new video up on Youtube that was quite good, but probably not great for this target audience. Well just some insight on that though he took it down......it was about ball flight laws and D plane and the problem is to cover everything it has to be detailed and long, comprehensive which is not conducive to a short video. He also ripped Mike Bennett and Andy Plummers discussion on ball flight on the Charlie Rose show because they simplified it for the audience and did not cover the exact numbers behind ball flights and the D plane. The bottom like is you have to find a way to make something like that simple, its not easy and as M+B will lead to huge criticism if not done perfect.
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Post by jonnygrouville on Aug 29, 2010 22:21:12 GMT -5
Wow. Seriously. If you are serious about it, surely take some speech making lessons or read a couple of books about it or something. You’re right; you can tell the ones that have done videos before.
I can’t really see how The Golf Channel could take any of the ‘one method’ style guys as their responses to questions from viewers, etc. would all be the same!
To me, this smacks of all the American Idol auditions and stuff. Always amazes me how someone shows up in series twenty or whatever the hell it is, having seen the previous winners and think ‘This is the year they will take a tone-deaf three-hundred pound dude screaming at the top of his voice’. And who wins? Someone attractive that can sing? Weird.
They are clearly not looking for another Michael Breed, but they’re not going to go for something off the chart. All the ‘independent’ teachers out there need something to differentiate themselves, but I can’t see The Golf Channel going for being used as a platform for ‘Single Centre Golf’, ‘Parallel Wisdom Swing’ or whatever it is they have come up with.
I am a fan of Manzella and think he would do really well as a multiple-method teacher, but choosing what to do would be tricky. He is science heavy and should probably stay away from that. Great for the internet crowd, not for The Golf Channel. Might there be a bitter pill to swallow? Some integrity to compromise for commercial success? Weird.
The Shawn Clement video is looking good at the mo, but, again, I’m not sure why he has chosen those subjects.
Guys like this are doing well. Can you imagine directing either of them? Ouch.
Is it just me or are some of them not sticking to the rules? Don’t they all need a forty second web-tip?
Also, what is the programme they are going to make? Do we get to make suggestions? I’d like to see more analysis of pro swings. You could have a segment on say Jim Furyk’s swing, why it works and then three or four things we can learn from each (instead of just here’s a slo-mo, here are a couple of computer-drawn lines, here’s why he hit it right).
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Post by iteachgolf on Aug 30, 2010 0:01:48 GMT -5
Might there be a bitter pill to swallow? Some integrity to compromise for commercial success? why I didn't enter
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Post by jonnygrouville on Aug 30, 2010 1:15:25 GMT -5
A doff of the cap to you Dan.
This is honestly more for presenters than pros! Do they think they are going to get complete editorial control? I can't see it. I can't see that they are after great ideas or theories or science or whatever. Can't see them wanting anything controversial either.
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