Does hitting promote quitting

[tball88]

Rich, congrats on a great website and your new forum.

I wanted to run something by all of the TGM affectionado's out there, and that is does hitting promote quitting.

ie: when put on a launch monitor, I've noticed that my launch angles are much higher when hitting versus swinging, and I think it's due to the focus on driving the right arm, as opposed to a focus on a strong pivot and getting to the left side.

Just a thought and wondered if anyone else has experienced the same issue.

[Richie3Jack]

Ballard - great to have you aboard! I look forward to many more of you posts.

'Quitting' I believe is when the hands stop moving as they get into the impact interval and then the throwaway of the club happens.

I actually don't believe hitting promotes quitting of the hands. I think it does the exact opposite. The problem that people who employ hitting tend to have (including myself) is that they stop pivoting. There's a big misconception that you really don't have to pivot or pivot that well when hitting and that's a recipe for disaster.

I think an issue with hitting is that a golfer can get the hands too far forward at impact, get a lot of shaft lean and really de-loft the club too much and that's why they hit it lower with hitting vs. swinging.

I remember you asking me about Lag Erickson's module program, we have some members here that are in the program and he's received rave reviews from everybody so I thought you may be interested in that.




3JACK

[imperfectgolfer]

Ballard

When you write about "quitting" what are you referring to - slowing/stalling of the pivot action or the arms/hands?

Jeff.

[tball88]

imperfect, that's exactly what I mean. I am being a lttle over the top with stating that hitting can promote quitting, however, I think it's something a hitter has to be very cautious about.

Ted Fort is a great hitter, however, he has mastered a slow start down in order to make sure he hasn't over accelerated from the top and run out of right arm.

While, I love the idea of hitting, I often overaccelerate the arms from the top, do not maintain a strong pivot and run out of right arm.

On launch monitors, this is reflected with higher launch angles versus when I employ a swinging action.

Also a hard push with the right arm early, I believe can make it difficult to get to the left side at impact.

[Richie3Jack]

tball88 - It's the same thing I'm struggling with and I'm trying to really turn the shoulders flatter on the downswing and 'swing left' to stay on plane post impact. When I right arm throw I run out of right arm, swing too far out to the right and the head dips and goes backwards.

I'm only about 3 weeks into eliminating this, but I've seen improvements in my head and really don't worry much about FLW at impact.

The problem is that essentially I'm trying to get the clubhead to the ball, but I've been doing it for so long by throwing the right arm instead of using a pivot and some unbending of the right wrist as I approach impact.

I find this to be something that Manzella, Lag Erickson, darome and Slicefixer try to get their students doing...cutting down excessive forward shaft lean...'swinging left'...and pivoting past impact. Just how they go about teaching it is different.




3JACK

[tball88]

Richie, same exact wall I hit. Maybe it's that it's hard to push, and pivot.

I've noticed a huge improvement in my launch angles by using a swinging method and getting a much better finish on my left side.

I wish I could master the hitting, procedure,but I've struggled, maybe I should look into Lag pressures hitting philosophy

[Richie3Jack]

John has a different interpretation of hitting. A 'hitter' in his teaching is somebody that swings left and uses angled hinge. It doesn't have to do with a drive loading procedure (which is what Homer Kelley said determines hitting) His terminology is that somebody who 'swings out to the right' is a swinger.



3JACK

[gmbtempe]

Feb 2, 2010 22:24:23 GMT -5 Richie3Jack said:

John has a different interpretation of hitting. A 'hitter' in his teaching is somebody that swings left and uses angled hinge. It doesn't have to do with a drive loading procedure (which is what Homer Kelley said determines hitting) His terminology is that somebody who 'swings out to the right' is a swinger.



3JACK

I kind of like that, I know working on a CP release I definitely feel more right side effort very close to impact.

[gmbtempe]

I found this post by John Erickson at his site and thought it to be very relevent to this thread, bolded part by me.

www.advancedballstriking.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=68&sid=7729ca024c0d8509192a8ea431861e6d

Typically the hinge action would refer to the action the hands take after impact.. of course this to an extent is predetermined by the intent of direction (longitudinal or radial).. I use an angled hinge as a hitter.. there is no feeling of a roll at all.. the clubface is kept square to the shoulders after impact using the bigger muscles of the body and torso’s rotation.

At parallel 3 both hitters and swingers might look quite similar, but in the case of my release I would use a non automatic release, meaning the shaft is “fired” with a deliberate rotation of the right forearm into the impact area.. it’s a lot like slamming a door shut, once it hits the frame it goes no further.. I taught myself to do this using an impact bag.

The real key here is that once impact is reached, the hips then take over the firing, and the body picks up speed in an attempt to keep the clubshaft accelerating over to parallel 4. In a final attempt to continue this acceleration, the shaft is ripped upward from the flat plane into a high finish by the upper arms again pulling the club shaft from a hands or elbow plane, to a shoulder plane… this action feels as if you are still keeping pressure on the shaft.

There is no doubt that what one feels and what is actually happening are often different.

If you are to have any chance of holding the flex all the way to the ball, you will have to feel as if you are reaching maximum velocity at the 4rth parallel.

[tball88]

gmbtempe, what John is talking about is the part I feel many TGM HItters are missing. I was so focused on driving hard with pressure point one, that I would drive to a flat left wrist, but hang back on the right side, no focus on maintaining pressure point 4 at all. The result was a right side hangback, run out of right arm flip.

Now I'm not saying the problem is with TGM, the problem has been in mine and I believe many others interpretation of all this focus on Pressure Point 1. Under 7-11 application of Thrust, Homer discusses combining pressure points, and using 1,2,3,4 or all pressure points in a swing. I think this is exactly what John is conveying.

[gmbtempe]

I think thats well said tball...I know the exact feeling you are describing.