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Post by Richie3Jack on Feb 1, 2010 22:38:01 GMT -5
I thought we should create a thread about what we like about TGM.
I was one of the better junior golfers in the state of NY when I was in HS and I was pretty solid from tee to green, a great pitcher and flopper of the ball and an average putter. My most advanced piece of golf instruction in HS was getting a lesson from David Orr back in 1991, probably one of the first lessons David ever gave (it only cost me $10) and he showed me the Jimmy Ballard connection drill. This of course was well before all of the mass amount of knowledge David has learned since then. In fact, I still consider David the best all around teacher in golf as he knows TGM (actually teaches it), darome, S&T and has an incredible amount of putting knowledge and skill.
Anyway, coming into college my swing went to hell and I wound up finding TGM instructor Chuck Wike while looking for Tom Tomasello (who had just passed away at the time).
TGM really opened my eyes to a lot in instruction and I had read just about every golf swing instruction book there was at the time. I had ZERO clue about a FLW at impact. Or things like the elbow plane, and 'ringing the bell' with the left arm, etc.
Now I pretty much know the yellow book down pat, or at least 95% of the book.
I think the biggest praise I can give the book is that it makes you realize that there are almost countless ways to 'skin a cat' and it makes the brave attempt to go thru all of them. When you are reading popular golf instruction you start to think that there is basically one type of golf swing. Also the importance of 'alignments' vs. 'position' is so crucial to understand and to utilize when developing your swing. Again something popular golf instruction ignores.
But one thing I probably love most about the book, something I think that the critics of TGM completely ignore, is that it taught me *how* to practice and *how* to treat your practice sessions like a scientist treats time in a laboratory. Homer Kelley was wise enough to accomplish this system by understanding feel.
IMO, HK's brilliance was that he understood that feels were subjective and vital because they allowed for repitition. Unfortunately with popular golf instruction, they tend to pretty much tell the golfer that their instruction will feel a certain way, but the reality is that you're better off figuring out what it feels like to you.
I get non-TGM people, particularly some local instructors who want to talk to me about TGM saying to the effect 'well, I suggest feels to my students.' I think that is fine to do, but you really need to get the student to figure out how to feel for themselves because the feel you suggest to the student make not click.
Learning feel from mechanics...to me, the crown jewel of the book.
3JACK
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Post by kevcarter on Feb 1, 2010 23:01:26 GMT -5
What a great post, I can't top that!!!
Kevin
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Post by Richie3Jack on Feb 1, 2010 23:04:59 GMT -5
Forget about topping it, just wanted to know what in your opinion, think is great about the book.
3JACK
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 1, 2010 23:50:25 GMT -5
I think that the best TGM concepts are the i) power accumulator loading/release concept; ii) tracing a SPL concept and the iii) left arm and right forearm flying wedge concept.
Jeff.
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Post by kevcarter on Feb 2, 2010 9:24:15 GMT -5
Forget about topping it, just wanted to know what in your opinion, think is great about the book. 3JACK I think it gives us a great structure. Alignments at address that we can check and make sure we are in consistently. I like the fact Mr. Kelley gives us permission to use our right arm and right side. All teaching I have heard in the past has told us its a left sided game, the right side could do nothing but cause problems... The Magic of the Right Forearm. Homer teaches us not only that we can use our right side, but how to use it effectively. I had a horrible case of the driver yips. I was a swinger who couldn't trust centrifugal force. I flinched every swing and hit the most crooked tee shots you can imagine. Driving the right side gives me more of a "feel" of being in control. Some say there is no such thing as CF. Oh well... Homer Kelley gave us a blueprint, something we can go back to when we are in trouble. Different components that we can try to get better. We aren't just swimming in an ocean without direction. Something to believe in, not just band-aids. I'm going to remain a beginner. As I said in another post. STARTING OVER WITH G.O.L.F. HOMER KELLEY"If I were starting to play golf, this is what I would concentrate on. It's what it all boils down to. It's even simpler than The Triad." • At Fix, establish your Flat, Level and Vertical Left Wrist and your On Plane Right Forearm Angle of Approach (7-3). • At Start Up, take your Hands Up, Back, and In on the Plane of your Right Forearm. • Through Impact, return to the Fix Hand Location and the established Right Forearm Angle of Approach. From that foundation, focus on the imperatives and essentials while monitoring the pressure points. It's that easy. Kevin
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Post by gmbtempe on Feb 2, 2010 10:06:35 GMT -5
1. The concept of the wedges, you just don't hear people talk about that and maintaining them. 2. The concept of pressure points, most importantly pp #3 3. The concept of the right forearm being on plane before, during impact, and after
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Post by mudball on Feb 3, 2010 19:38:05 GMT -5
Forget about topping it, just wanted to know what in your opinion, think is great about the book. 3JACK I think it gives us a great structure. Alignments at address that we can check and make sure we are in consistently. ... I had a horrible case of the driver yips. I was a swinger who couldn't trust centrifugal force. I flinched every swing and hit the most crooked tee shots you can imagine. Driving the right side gives me more of a "feel" of being in control. Some say there is no such thing as CF. Oh well... I would read books or watch videos and even go to pros and I would hear 'method' i.e. use this method... step 1 do this step 2 look like this etc And I would look at all that and say it was random what connected all these theories what were the absolute laws that sat beneath the customisations and individual traits... With TGM I can see the patterns unfolding. That's what I like. Although every day I learn a little more and realise I know a little less! Hey Richie - tell me more about this driver yip - I swear I have a big problem with the driver. If I could drive like I hit my three iron I swear I'd be 5 shots lower on my handicap. I can drop the driver and just use a three iron or hybrid off the tee and play to my handicap most times! Could you explain that problem a little more and what you did to sort it? What do you mean not trusting CF and flinching. I'm experimenting with hitting but think I'm over accelerating at the moment.
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Post by Richie3Jack on Feb 3, 2010 21:50:22 GMT -5
Dave --- I think you want to speak to Kevin since he was the one who was talking about driver 'yips.'
I was a good driver of the ball in HS, then I really lost my driving skill in college. But since I've gotten back into the game and now understand TGM and D-Plane I'm a pretty good driver of the ball again. I'm not super long, but I do hit a lot of fairways.
The driver isn't always easy to hit for a lot of people, IMO. It's a longer, lower lofted club that is swung at a faster clubhead speed all of which means you miss the shot and then hit a very errant golf shot.
3JACK
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Post by mudball on Feb 4, 2010 7:12:52 GMT -5
Dave --- I think you want to speak to Kevin since he was the one who was talking about driver 'yips.' ... The driver isn't always easy to hit for a lot of people, IMO. It's a longer, lower lofted club that is swung at a faster clubhead speed all of which means you miss the shot and then hit a very errant golf shot. 3JACK Sorry - my mistake! at the range today I tried shortening my driver by gripping down - I experimented with different lengths and I think I've got a mental block with the driver - what I'm calling a yip - in that I struggle to swing down and into the back of the ball. I worry about burying the club in the ground (I think that is what underlies the problem) and as a result I set it on a downward plane angle that cuts across the ball so that I don't bury it. I found by shortening the club so it was impossible for me to hit the ground (or harder at least) I got a significant improvement. I look at my old persimmon and it is a lot shorter (and flattter). I'm considering taking a hacksaw to the Ping Kevcarter - hope you read this - without making you re-live painful memories... I'd love to find out more about this driving Yip you mentioned - I really think that is the best way to describe my driving problem... PM me if you don't wish to go public - but I think you may have something useful to share there if you are willing?
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Post by Richie3Jack on Feb 4, 2010 10:36:30 GMT -5
One thing I do when I start getting into the midst of playing competitive golf or 'money rounds' (I only play for like $10) is that I'll got to the range, go thru most of the bag, even hitting the driver a few times, then I'll wind up hitting more irons. Then at the end of the range session, I'll make it so I can hit 15 good drivers off the tee and I won't leave until I do. So, if it takes me 100 swings to hit 15 good drivers, so be it. Then in the next practice range session I will do the same thing, but now my goal is to hit 15 good drivers in less swings. Then the next time it's 15 good drivers in even less swings and so on and so forth.
I also change around my target with those drivers on the range because it get's too easy to just pick one target and rapid fire them at that target. And yes, I can hit 15 good drivers in 15 swings. Done it plenty of times.
Why 15?
Because you're likely to hit about 14 drivers in a round, so I just rounded it up. When I started struggling with my driver in college one of the issues I faced was convincing myself I could go an entire round hitting every driver well. So this puts you into a mindset, once you can hit 15 good drivers in a row on the range, that you can go thru an entire round hitting good drives every time. The best I did this year was I hit 29 fairways in a row and if I hit a poor drive that still finds the fairway, I don't count that as a hit fairway. And believe, almost every one of those 29 hit fairways were piped
Another thing I would try, although it depends on the driver, is to try and hit the driver off the deck. If you can do that, you certainly can hit it off a tee. I have a Cleveland Hi-Bore XLS 10.5 with a high launching shaft and can hit it off the deck without any major issue.
3JACK
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 4, 2010 11:22:34 GMT -5
Mudball You may benefit using a shorter driver. I cut 2" off my driver to great advantage. Here is an useful table. Jeff.
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Post by mudball on Feb 4, 2010 12:23:18 GMT -5
OK thanks guys - comments and response to points made... 1) Jeff - you are good - how on earth could you tell from over there that it would be two inches? Just measured myself - floor to wrist 35.8 and current Driver (Ping G10) 45.5 - your table (thanks) would show I need 43.5 - so that is would you believe 2 inches as you said...! 2) If I went to the range and tried to hit 15 good shots before leaving I'd be there for like 18 hours! Even that is me being optimistic ) 3) Kevin - I hope you checked out the right blog - I'm a Dave not a John ) Whoever John is he has a good blog. You are right I have been around awhile though. I got my PurBallStriker in the post on Tuesday and I've tried it a couple of times, including today. I always thought I was a swinger but I'm not sure. Today I tried out the five various trigger types - for me the best results were from Arm throw and Delivery Path Throw. Although Hand Throw worked quite well - Wrist and Shoulder Yuk! poor results. I struggle to feel my driver shaft load and if I do, it goes right and v high. But today when I tried this shortening of the shaft by gripping down I was able to load up the shaft. So I maybe taking a hacksaw to my driver for this weekend! I did look up some of Jeff Evans stuff - I don't like venturing into GolfWRX but if you insist... I'll look up his drills.
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Post by kevcarter on Feb 4, 2010 13:50:32 GMT -5
Dave -> John, whats a name amongst friends! :-)
Kevin
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tball88
'88 Apex Redlines
Posts: 139
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Post by tball88 on Feb 4, 2010 16:54:04 GMT -5
imperfect, I'm pretty short and also pretty sure my driver is too long.
When you shortened your driver, did you notice a decrease in distance due to a shorter shart, or did you drive the ball longer due to making better contact.
Also, if you have a graphite shaft, can you actually cut it, or do you need to completely replace the shaft?
Lastly if you go to a shorter shaft, do you need to change the flex?
Thanks
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Post by Richie3Jack on Feb 4, 2010 18:17:26 GMT -5
I had a friend about tball's height and he didn't carry any driver longer than 43.5" long. He was a great player, was in the finals of the NY State Am one year at I think 21 years old. He tried the 45" drivers and greatly lost consistency and accuracy. He got the idea from hitting the old metal woods which he was hitting better than the titanium woods when the ti-woods first came out. So he just went with titanium drivers with 43.5" long shafts.
3JACK
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