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Post by Richie3Jack on Jan 17, 2010 0:34:40 GMT -5
Thanks to Greg (gmbtempe) for putting this latest sequence together. I've made some (or attempted to make) some major adjustments to the swing, but I don't have a video of them yet. Hopefully next week I will if the weather is better. 3JACK
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Post by riduffer on Jan 26, 2010 22:19:56 GMT -5
3 Jack, how would you analyze your swing? I see some things that remind me of S&T (inside hands, centered) but I don't know alot about specific patterns. I have enjoyed watching your videos on youtube and on your blog, so I was just wondering what you think are the important components that make your swing work.
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Post by Richie3Jack on Jan 26, 2010 23:24:17 GMT -5
I'll try:
P1 - Standing further away from the ball, which is what Hogan did (people think standing away from the ball they think Moe), but I think most of the great ballstrikers had ample distance from the body and the ball. This allows for better waist bend at address. Hands slightly ahead of mid-body, no biggie. Could probably flare out the left foot more for some help with rotating on the downswing.
P2 - Full Sweep Loading begins, but with some pretty good 'width' on the backswing. Coming in on the elbow plane right here.
P3 - In the middle of shifting to the TSP. Full Sweep Loading here. Hand path inside, shoulder turn down. Pretty standard for better players.
P4 - On TSP, smidge laid off. Pretty good overall, I worked a lot on my backswing in my junior golf and college years, should've been working on the downswing much more back then. I could've been dangerous back then if that was the case because my short game was superb back then.
P5 - I'm thinking drive load here. Need to start thinking about pivot, especially the upper body. I'm probably a random sweep release of the clubhead.
P6 - Single Shift plane variation, but the neck has tilted downward so the chin tucks into the chest. This also tilts the head backwards and causes way too much axis tilt.
P7 - 'Ran out of Right Arm' because I'm trying to drive load and I don't pivot enough. Causes the right shoulder to go too far downward instead of the right shoulder going more across had I pivoted. Also, I'm trying to create too much shaft lean, but because I 'ran out of right arm' I actually wound up losing shaft lean and having some throwaway. Axis tilts back way too much because the head is so far back, basically 'hanging and flippin' and low point control is damaged, clubface control is worse, and not fulfiling my potential with clubhead speed.
Plane line is wayy too far to the right. You can see this by the horizontal hinge past impact and the hands 'cross over' past impact. This means the AoA has to shallow out to hit the ball straight or hit a draw.
But, if I try to get all that shaft lean and I don't pivot, I'll hit it thin or hit a wipe or even worse, hit a shank.
Ugh.
P8 - The pivot here is something I probably should have had at impact or even at P6. Head still wayyy behind.
P9 - No pic available
My swing has changed a bit since then. Working on pivoting and flattening out my shoulders on the downswing. Getting open shoulders and hips at impact and 'swinging left' (staying on plane past impact) and not 'running out of right arm.'
Even though I have a long way to go on that, I've already seen big improvements in my ballstriking and when looking at video my throwaway has noticeably reduced and I have a FLW at impact.
3JACK
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Post by TeddyIrons on Jan 27, 2010 1:50:36 GMT -5
Richie, just a thought (you are a far better player than me, so don't take me too seriously), but have you ever tried incorporating a little sit down move at transition?
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Post by vjsinger on Jan 27, 2010 10:22:44 GMT -5
Rich,
Have you tried, "getting into your right side" a little more at the top? I think maybe a bump of the hips to your right on the BS might help you free up the DS pivot a little. You'll have a place to go to in the DS pivot and you won't have to wait for you arms so much coming down. I think it may also help with distance and the timing of it all...just a thought.
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Post by Richie3Jack on Jan 27, 2010 11:08:50 GMT -5
I haven't tried it yet. My swing has changed since then. Working the hands and club more left with my pivot. Problem is that I still have that tendency to want to thrust the right arm and over-accelerate the hands too much and things get thrown out of sync.
3JACK
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Post by Richie3Jack on Feb 1, 2010 1:07:18 GMT -5
Some new swings. Couldn't get the DTL view, range was packed. Still running out of right arm too much. Impact is better. Head doesn't move as far back, particularly in the P8 area. 3JACK
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Post by TeddyIrons on Feb 1, 2010 2:15:28 GMT -5
I notice you seem more posted on the left leg than in the past (or if not, I hadn't noticed this before). Is this a result of some of the S&T stuff you've been looking at?
Great rythmn as usual.
Edit: I mean, posted on the left leg at impact
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 1, 2010 10:47:18 GMT -5
3jack
Why do you believe that you are still "running-out-of-right arm"? I think that your i) right shoulder position and ii) degree of right elbow bend at impact is appropriate.
I am delighted to see that you have a lifted right heel at impact. I think that many golfers "incorrectly" believe that its better to keep the right heel grounded at impact.
Jeff.
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Post by Richie3Jack on Feb 1, 2010 20:04:01 GMT -5
I'm actually past the S&T stuff. I don't have anything against the S&T pattern or its components, but the stuff I wanted to work on, things like getting more on plane past impact (swinging left), 'saving the right arm', etc are things that I don't feel the S&T swing addresses or cares to address.
My impact from the DTL angle doesn't look too different from the sequence above. Perhaps tomorrow I'll take a video of it and post it here. The right arm is too straight at impact, I prefer the Hogan or Snead right forearm at impact look.
3JACK
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Post by Richie3Jack on Apr 2, 2010 15:14:40 GMT -5
I got a couple of e-mails of people asking me about my progress, particularly with me joining the ABS modules.
Unfortunately, I have not been able to record my swing. I've got it on video when I go to the PGA Tour Superstore and into their practice bays. But you will see a very different looking golf swing when I finally get it recorded.
The problem is that the weather has been awful and in Georgia, winter weather consists of very windy weather. So windy that the tripod will blow over. And when it's nice out the range is packed. So I can't get a Face On view. Nor can I get the DTL view because you have to place the tripod on the cart path to do that.
A lot more knee flex at address, but the downswing looks entirely more powerful and with a better motion. I'm not too nutty about my shoulder turn in the backswing and the swing has shortened a bit. A lot flatter plane.
Me and forum member tball88 played his course on Wednesday and he can probably better describe the differences he sees in my swing from last September.
My index right now is 0.5. Which is pretty good because just about everybody I know has seen their index rise rapidly. The weather is bad, the courses are wet and the grass is dead. It's tough because if you miss a green, you are often on as thin of a lie to chip from and it's difficult to get up and down, even with the easiest of up and downs. Plus, they are aerating the greens.
I gotta say I was skeptical about Lag Erickson's preference for very flat irons coming into ABS, but I now think just about every observation he's made on equipment to be very astute.
Right now I play with the IPT's and the Apex PC's. I hit both quite well. When I hit both flush, the Apex PC's are better because the windows are better and I'll hit them 1-2 clubs longer and just as straight. But the IPT's seem to work better for me from funky lies. The Hogan Percussions are on standby for now because they are still at standard lie angles and only at a D-1 swingweight.
I also just purchased some Hogan Bounce Sole 1+ irons that I got for $40. I just got those bent and I'm awaiting to put new grips on them. The clubmaker at PGA Tour Superstore was enthused to see somebody use those as he said he had that same set when he was in college and regretted he ever got rid of them.
I was going to take a trip up to the Scratch Golf HQ today, but the fitter I wanted to see is out and my allergies (never had allergies, but Georgia pollen is outrageously strong) were acting up. Plus, they wanted me to get there at 10:30 AM and if I was late I was out of luck. Georgia traffic is just too unpredictable, so I'm going to put the trip to Scratch on hold for now.
I did rectify my wedge situation to some degree. I bought a used Mizuno MP T-series sand wedge for $20 and had that bent 5* flat and just put a boatload of lead tape on it. It should be about a D-9 swingweight as well. One of the things Lag says is that the wedges should be very heavy, about D-8 to E-0 so you can get better distance control. Lag's been very astute on everything he's mentioned about equipment so far, so I'm interested in how this works out.
I also just purchased a Nickent ARC forged LW that I got for only $30. I have the Nickent ARC gap wedge, so I wanted to try this out.
I should be done with buying used irons for now. Maybe some used MP-14's or some old Dynapowers.
I do need to get a new driver if I'm going to play tournaments. I hit mine well but too high.
The fairway woods are a concern with Lag's ABS system since you can't really bend a fairway wood flat. I may try to find a 15-16* hybrid and while it may not fit me lie angle wise, it should be easier to hit.
I'd also like to get something like a used 8802 type putter. I had an 8802 putter when I was a junior golfer and putted lights out with it. I had an entire summer where I didn't miss ONE putt from 4 feet and in with that putter. But somebody stole it out of my bag.
I should be moving to Module 3 pretty soon. Module 2 has a footwork element to it and it's really Module 1 with the footwork element to it. But the footwork element is extremely important IMO.
I tend to get into 2 problems. One being that I start firing the hands before I get into pitch elbow on the downswing. The other being I tend to get a little lazy with the Module 2 footwork during the round.
3JACK
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Post by Ringer on Apr 20, 2010 11:04:43 GMT -5
I see a left side pull driven swing and no right side push.
For you, the swing is all in the hips but with a very very hard release. (Club is well rotated on the follow-through)
I'm guessing at one time you played baseball/softball.
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Post by Richie3Jack on Apr 20, 2010 14:24:26 GMT -5
I did and was much more of a natural at basebal than I was at golf. However, I was a far better pitcher than a hitter.
My swing has changed quite a bit since then. Flatter, much more drive with the lower body, pitch elbow instead of punch elbow, grip a bit stronger, etc. I was definitely driving the right arm in the first swing. I 'lose the right arm' pretty quickly, showing the drive with the right arm. I worked with Lake1926 (John Dochety)...fantastic lesson...and he went over the problems that driving the right arm can cause and many of them were problems I was having. Now my misses are pretty much straight pushes and some occasional thin shots.
3JACK
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Post by fearlessgolfer on Apr 20, 2010 17:47:26 GMT -5
Richie, forgive me for my ignorance of Lag and his work, but is he not another offshoot from TGM/darome as in S&T?
Everyone has a system and a belief system to work from, and I am not familiar with Lag's therories. But from a glance, are you not doing CP-ish?
When I worked two years with a biomechanical driven teacher who taught Brian Gay, he told me about going flatter with my lie angle. I mean severely flat. LOL
I took it to 3* flat, especially with shorter irons and it looked good from an address position. Can you explain little bit more of cause and effect approach of flat lies? Only flat woods you can get is Ping's older(recent) fairway metal-woods, IMO.
Thanks
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Post by Richie3Jack on Apr 20, 2010 18:57:32 GMT -5
Lag (aka John Erickson) studied TGM when he was 14 years old as he started out with Ben Doyle. He eventually became an NCAA All-American at Fresno State and a Canadian and Australian PGA Tour player, winning twice. He called himself a 'Bobby Clampett-clone', hands well above the head at the top of the swing, a boatload of lag with a deep pitch elbow on the downswing. A pure 'swinging' motion. He has stated that when he was on, he hit great shots, but he eventually found that he couldn't compete on those Tours with a swing that was so inconsistent.
He eventually set out to create a different swing for himself and use training methods to develop that swing from his TGM knowledge and videotaping all of the great ballstrikers he could find and study the great ballstrikers of the past.
He eventually discovered this, won a couple of tournaments and then decided to quit as a pro in 1993 and took 15 years off the game.
He's spoken briefly to MOG back in the early 90's and I don't think he's ever talked to the S&T guys. His stuff is more similar to darome, but it's certainly not an off-shoot of darome since neither really know each other.
Lag basically wants you on a very flat *downswing* plane, pretty much the elbow plane on the downswing. Usually the golfers get into pitch elbow and then they 'swing left' hard. Footwork is taught here and the footwork is very similar to Greg Norman's pre-Butch Harmon.
He wants flat lies to do two things....make the swing flatter so you are less likely to come OTT and to force the golfer to use the ground to push off of.
3JACK
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