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Post by Richie3Jack on Jan 17, 2010 0:39:26 GMT -5
What do you think equates to better scores, better ballstriking or better short game production?
Is there a difference for different skill level of players?
I will add my thoughts later in the thread once it starts to get going.
3JACK
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Post by coolsideofdapillow on Jan 17, 2010 2:40:01 GMT -5
I think if you have better ballstriking, you're put into better positions, more fairways and greens, and have to rely less on short game ability. It certainly doesn't hurt to have good short game though.
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Post by gmbtempe on Jan 17, 2010 12:03:15 GMT -5
I just had this debate with someone at another forum, an average golfer asked he shoots mostly mid 80's and can occasionaly get into the 70's but wanted to know what would get him there more consistently.
90% of the repsponses were work on your short game. I completely disagreed, and I think my personal experience helped form my opinion.
I have always been able to hit the ball half way decent and propel it a distance with a somewhat solid strike. My short game is way above the norm yet I always was floating around the 10 handicap or so. I found that I was always relying on my short game to save crappy driving or crappy iron play. Good scores were just a matter if I had a great ball striking day, the short game was not relevent really.
So last year about this time (March to be exact) I decided that if I ever wanted to be in the 70's consistently I needed improve my ball striking, to make more biridies and hit more greens, the short game would not need to save me but compliment my game.
It has worked I am now at 6.8 and going down. I can now go for par 5's that I never dreamed of before and my misses or much more in play.
Its imperative to have a good short game but its not going to make you a consistent or great player, ball striking will get you there much quicker.
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Post by siteseer2 on Jan 17, 2010 14:33:12 GMT -5
Control you golf ball, first Then, short game is what makes a playa'
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antti
Beat up Radials
Posts: 9
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Post by antti on Jan 17, 2010 17:35:33 GMT -5
I think that most agree that the more greens you hit, the better you will score.
However, I think for most golfers the faster way to take few strokes of average 18-hole scores is thru a better short game. The higher the handicap, the more true that is.
Getting better in the short game (especially chipping and putting) is easier for the club player than becoming a better ball striker. When you start out practicing, as long as you do it regularly, you're almost guaranteed to get better. Although it would be better to make practice smart and efficient, just simply hitting chips and putts will get you better.
Becoming a better ball striker is not as guaranteed. The golfer needs knowledge (often good instruction) to improve. Just mindlessly beating balls on the range will not do it.
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Post by kevcarter on Jan 17, 2010 18:20:41 GMT -5
I agree with Homer Kelley's premise that working many of the short game alignments translates to the long game. You certainly need to practice both, but the foundation is laid in the short game IMO.
Kevin
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Post by Richie3Jack on Jan 17, 2010 19:18:45 GMT -5
My thoughts are that if you look at the top 5 stats that correlate to stroke average on the PGA Tour, they are as follows:
1. GIR 2. Putts/GIR 3. Double Bogey or worse rate 4. Scrambling 5. Go For Its
Each stat has ballstriking play *some* part in it. Even putts/GIR because if I can get the ball closer to the hole for birdie, the more likely I am going to make the putt. And with scrambling, it's a lot easier to get up and down if I just miss the green than if I miss by a mile.
I think when you really start to reach an elite level, then you need to start making putts. I also think power can mean you can make less putts because you're playing most par 72's as par-68.
There was a kid I played with this summer who didn't hit the ball as accurate and as 'pure' as I did, but outdrove me by about 50-70 yards. And he is a terrible putter. On a par-71 he shot 73 and I shot 74. But he was playing the course like a par 67 and I was playing it as a par-70. The longest shot he had into a par-5 was a 3-iron. The shortest shot I had into a par-5 was a 3-hybrid.
So I think that the game is a ballstriking game and IMO more of a power game than given credit for. But once you hit the scratch and beyond point, then I think putting is involved unless you are ungodly long.
3JACK
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johngrahamgolf
'88 Apex Redlines
3Jack Top 20 Short Game/Putting Instructor
Posts: 229
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Post by johngrahamgolf on Jan 18, 2010 0:09:22 GMT -5
I think this is a debate which is a chicken and the egg kind of thing.
It's like asking if some shots are more important than others.
The facts are that each shot equals 1.
All the shots are equally weighted.
Fewer strokes equate to lower scores.
Only by investigating each person's strengths and weaknesses can a plan of action be attempted.
It depends across all abilities in my opinion.
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Post by golfbaka on Jan 18, 2010 6:29:40 GMT -5
'The facts are that each shot equals 1 - All the shots are equally weighted' This is of course true but usually there is no penalty for a poor chip or putt.
If I hit 2 very poor putts in a row but hole the third one I have taken 3 strokes. On the otherhand if I duck hook two drives out of bounds and then smack one 300 yards down the middle I'm playing 6 from the fairway...
Most of the poor ballstrikers / good short gamers seem to hit a wall at about 8 (CONGU) based on my observations.
For most mid-handicapers keeping the ball in play whilst hitting it a reasonable distance would seem to be a prerequisite to having a good short game.
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Post by fearlessgolfer on Jan 18, 2010 9:27:26 GMT -5
One man's miracle drug is another man's poison, vice versa'?
First, find out which is more important to a golfer; one has to ask themselves brutally truthful about their game. As Richie said he does, chart your results and to find out what is your strengths and weaknesses. Then practice your weaknesses and enhance your strengths. Having said that, it's really hard to do, even PGA tour guys admit that they don't work on their weakness as much as they should. My short game has been always superior to my long game, so getting better ballstriking leads better score. Don't forget managing game,tho.
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Post by gmbtempe on Jan 18, 2010 9:35:01 GMT -5
Yea, the answer does depend a little bit on the golfer. I play a little with a 25 handicap, he should definitely work on the short game to save some strokes as he does not have the physical skills to be a very good ball striker. He could get better but will see more from better chipping, pitch and putting.
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johngrahamgolf
'88 Apex Redlines
3Jack Top 20 Short Game/Putting Instructor
Posts: 229
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Post by johngrahamgolf on Jan 19, 2010 1:20:08 GMT -5
'The facts are that each shot equals 1 - All the shots are equally weighted' This is of course true but usually there is no penalty for a poor chip or putt. If I hit 2 very poor putts in a row but hole the third one I have taken 3 strokes. On the otherhand if I duck hook two drives out of bounds and then smack one 300 yards down the middle I'm playing 6 from the fairway... Most of the poor ballstrikers / good short gamers seem to hit a wall at about 8 (CONGU) based on my observations. For most mid-handicapers keeping the ball in play whilst hitting it a reasonable distance would seem to be a prerequisite to having a good short game. This is what I mean about it being a chicken and the egg thing. We could go back and forth with examples that support opposing views that would in no way prove either side or convince the other. "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't, no proof is possible."---Stuart Chase
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Post by begolfpro on Jan 19, 2010 2:22:14 GMT -5
I would normally have sided on the short game side, but after considering what Rich has said I would think ballstriking just comes out tops. However, to do well and score well you have to have ALL parts of your game up to scratch. My best rounds though have been where I have hit 13 or more GIR. Conversely, when my ballstriking has been off I have really suffered. Here in Poland our course is rated as the toughest in the country because there are trees everywhere and lots of water . This course places a premium on ballstriking and course management. If you do not hit it straight and in the right place you are in trouble and no amount of short game skill is going to help you when all you can do is chip back out to the fairway or play backwards! But do not foresake any part of your game if you want to be the best you can be! Work on your weaknesses and maintain your strengths
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Post by riduffer on Jan 20, 2010 22:20:06 GMT -5
I believe that for high handicappers, short game will have a more immediate impact on scores. I dropped from a 20+ hcp to 12.5 last season, practicing short game about 80% of the time. I just don't think I would have seen that much improvement if I had spent all my time at the driving range.
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Post by Richie3Jack on Jan 20, 2010 22:24:33 GMT -5
I believe that for high handicappers, short game will have a more immediate impact on scores. I dropped from a 20+ hcp to 12.5 last season, practicing short game about 80% of the time. I just don't think I would have seen that much improvement if I had spent all my time at the driving range. Wow, that's big time improvement. Congrats! 3JACK
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