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Post by Richie3Jack on Nov 14, 2010 20:52:39 GMT -5
The one component of your swing you can't teach is the amount of pivot rotation with the hips and shoulders you get through the shot. I think you could fix some of those things pretty easily but would you hit it as far? Would you hit it as good? Not sure, seems like they work well for you. That's exactly what I was thinking. gmbtempe and i have a similar type issues at P6. so when we get at impact, my hips are square and my shoulders are closed. not really optimal for impact. However, your hips and shoulders are nicely open at impact. Can't really teach that. I think it's partly because you do nicely lag the club on the startdown. Lag is good because it helps the golfer get on plane in the downswing instead of coming over the top. And it also 'gives the golfer some time' to pivot their body. It's really not a distance thing with lag, it's a path thing with lag. Nicklaus hit the ball a mile without a ton of lag, but his downswing plane was much more upright, which I believe was due to his lesser amount of lag. Hogan and Sergio are the ultimate lagging swings, and they came down on a much flatter downswing plane. Anyway, I think you would hit the ball just as far if you could manage to straighten out the right arm more in the downswing and you would hit the ball more consistently because the rate of closure would decrease and you could better control the clubface. In fact, you may hit the ball further on average because you would hit less of those closed face de-lofting shots. 3JACK
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Post by gmbtempe on Nov 15, 2010 15:22:30 GMT -5
Definitely across the line even at the 3/4 so getting long only exacerbates the issue.
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Post by Ringer on Nov 15, 2010 16:34:35 GMT -5
Alright, had a quick range session at lunch time. No video but I know exactly how my swing works.
You guys did a great job and really gave me something that is going to work out well. This coming from a guy who has helped hundreds of others, knows his own swing inside and out, and have had lessons from many other teachers. By far this is the most significant change I've had to my ball striking. That's even over my session with Ralph West who I consider one of the best players in Arizona.
I made an entirely different action with my arms. Best I can describe it was to try and keep my right forearm rotated clockwise so that the inside of my right forearm faced my head. Clearly that puts my right arm in a much more "tucked" position and under the shaft. It also added some width and reduced the "over bent right arm" that Richie mentioned.
Since it was a totally brand new way to swing my arms I didn't expect perfect contact all the time. The worst of the problems were a few fat ones but the accuracy I gained was superb. My misses were 90% left of the target and if I missed to the right, it was trying to draw back. Normally my misses are to the right so this is quite significant.
I was so accurate in fact that I hit the 200 yard marker (which was really only 190) with my 6 iron 3 times. The marker is only about 1 foot wide.
Contact felt a little different as I think my hands were approaching flatter which also flattened my lie angle. That could be the biggest reason for the draw and pull misses.
I will definitely get this new idea on tape next time I head out. I am very confident though that this certainly has helped get me closer to the elbow plane on the way forward. Need a lot of practice with it if I'm going to get comfortable with it. It's not the normal way my arms want to work.
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Post by Ringer on Nov 15, 2010 22:38:56 GMT -5
Here's some video of my swing tonight at the range. Much more on plane.
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Post by gmbtempe on Nov 16, 2010 8:50:27 GMT -5
Yea, like that backswing better, did it do anything to the ball flight? Now when you have that little chaser move, a la Miguel Jimenez, its pretty much on plane rather then to steep.
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Post by Ringer on Nov 16, 2010 13:14:28 GMT -5
Yea, like that backswing better, did it do anything to the ball flight? Now when you have that little chaser move, a la Miguel Jimenez, its pretty much on plane rather then to steep. Definitely. I went from a push fade to a draw or pull. Some practice with it should get me even a little flatter on the way down and less across the line at the top. I'm still going to rotate a lot and possibly be long because of my flexibility, but you can see I have a massive shoulder turn. That turn with right arm flexion is what allows me to hit it so far. I want to keep the turn and flexion but put the club more on plane so I can be more consistent. So far it looks like this is definitely in the right direction.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Nov 16, 2010 13:30:09 GMT -5
I think that you have an unbelievably good swing!
I think that any golfer, who is contemplating using the S&T swing style because they believe that it may result in more solid ball-striking, should first look at your swing. Then, they may realize that there is no reason why a rightwards-centralised backswing action swing style cannot result in solid ball striking - if executed well. I think that you a perfect role model for a traditional golf swing!
Jeff.
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Post by Ringer on Nov 16, 2010 20:32:19 GMT -5
Here ya go, some high speed video of down the line. WAY more on plane from start to finish.
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Post by Ringer on Nov 16, 2010 20:32:47 GMT -5
I think that you have an unbelievably good swing! I think that any golfer, who is contemplating using the S&T swing style because they believe that it may result in more solid ball-striking, should first look at your swing. Then, they may realize that there is no reason why a rightwards-centralised backswing action swing style cannot result in solid ball striking - if executed well. I think that you a perfect role model for a traditional golf swing! Jeff. Thanks Jeff!
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Post by gmbtempe on Nov 17, 2010 12:21:59 GMT -5
I just think thats ways better....I saw some comments that seem to question the change but I am not one of them.
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Post by jonnygrouville on Nov 17, 2010 22:59:23 GMT -5
I really prefer the swing now. Don't change that pivot, but just looks like the arms and, consequetly, the club are more under control.
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Post by Ringer on Nov 18, 2010 0:12:42 GMT -5
I really prefer the swing now. Don't change that pivot, but just looks like the arms and, consequetly, the club are more under control. Never going to change the pivot. I had plenty of people tell me I needed to "quiet down" my lower body. I promptly stopped listening to them talk about anything golf related. The arm-swing I always felt was where my problems lay in my swing, the pivot is what I consider tour level. ... and I hit the ball a long way with it.
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Post by jonnygrouville on Nov 18, 2010 22:31:25 GMT -5
Exactly! My college coach always had a go at my lateral leg movement and my losing height. More 'advice' which I should never have listened to eh?
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Post by Ringer on Nov 21, 2010 0:57:53 GMT -5
Wow guys. Played a round with the new swing for the first time today. Par 70 and I shot a 72. Not a SINGLE shot ended up short and right. When I missed, I missed left which is a complete elation to me. Had a 335 yard drive on one hole (which I par'd). Knocked a 5 iron stiff from a terrible uphill and ball below my feet lie. And had an eagle on a par 5 where I knocked it in from the green-side bunker.
Something that really surprised me though was a big feeling of relief that I actually had the freedom to turn hard. By getting the right forearm rolled so the palm faces up, it tucked in my right elbow and let me just turn into the ball. When I did that with confidence, it was as if I couldn't miss.
Putting was a little lax, I had 30 putts with an average 1st putt distance of 14 feet. I'm well inside of tour average for 1st putt distance. In fact on holes where I'm on in reg I averaged about 16.5 feet from the pin. I need to make more of those.
11 GIR, 5 FIR out of 13. To be fair, of the 7 fairways I missed 5 of them were but just a couple of yards and were usually just because I wasn't familiar with where to aim on a new course. Course rating is 70.1, slope 115.
The swing is getting there. A few fat shots and some ugly hooks (which shock the hell out of me).
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