Helping out HS/College Coaches & Juniors

[Richie3Jack]

I have had a few friends work as head coaches or assistant coaches in golf. One was the asst. coach at Northwestern for awhile and another was the asst. women's coach at Florida.

While I get questions in regards to the swing from the juniors and their parents that play the courses I do (we have a lot of excellent juniors down here), usually the questions are in regards to how to obtain a college golf scholarship since I used to play on one at Coastal Carolina.

In this thread I will go over some things that I believe can generally help college and high school coaches in developing better golfers w/o going into golf swing instruction because that is a tricky subject when it comes to golfing for the school. I will also use this thread to understand what it's like to play college golf and high end high school golf and how the golfer and the HS coach can work together to get the golfer a possible scholarship offer.

Believe me, while I had a tremendous amount of respect for the two HS coaches I had (one retired and the other took over my senior year), I basically got zero help in this area and if it wasn't for me having a connection to the Coastal head coach (who later left the school my first semester there), I woudn't have gotten a scholarship. However, I quite frankly deserved it as I did start and could play. But my 'pickins' were quite slim and much more slim than they should have been.

The first thing HS golfers going to play college golf should understand, and there's no nice way to put it...is that there is a very HIGH probability that your college coach is going to be a dickhead.

I'm not stating this from my own experience only, but from countless other college golfers that I knew that were in for a rude awakening when they discovered that their coach wasn't the guy they thought he was.

My case is actually different, the coach that recruited me decided to quit after my first semester and the coach taking over was an unethical, irresponsible, obnoxious jerk. He actually was an assistant at Florida before coming to Coastal and then went onto coach Arizona State's (or Arizona, can't remember which one) women's team and then went onto coaching U. of Georgia women's team.

He actually got FIRED from the UGA job because he was hitting on the girls on the team, making inappropriate comments and acting lewd. He must have really pissed off a girl whose parents have some power because this story went all the way up to the NY Daily News which is unheard of when it comes to women's college golf. He allegedly high tailed it out of Arizona because he wound up marrying one of his former players just months after she graduate and since the school wasn't completely naive, they were likely to fire him as well.

And none of this came as a surprise to any of my teammates when I talked to him after he was dismissed from UGA.

Had a friend who was a top junior golfer who received a scholarship at East Carolina and after the first few practices he had the 6th lowest scoring average on the team and his coach told him point blank that he made a gigantic mistake giving him an offer and he was going to take it away from him.

Also if you think you can 'walk-on' to a team, forget about it. Very odd, but true that most golf teams do not accept walk ons. Which is funny because football teams, even big D-1 programs usually encourage walk-ons and wind up take a few each year. In basketball, it's essential to have 2-3 walk ons to help out with the team. But in golf, where there are tons of stories about great golfers who blossomed later on in life with their game, golf teams usually don't have walk ons.

My coach had clear favorites (loved Southern kids and Europeans) and actually benched me a few times even though I had a lower stroke average because in his words he felt i hit the ball too high and the area the tournament was in was windy so I had to sit. This despite shooting a lower stroke average while playing rounds of golf in Myrtle Beach which is very breezy throughout the year.

Then there's coaches that are swing changers, etc.

The things I would ask the head coach is probably to see what their 'turnover' rate for scholarship players is. Is there a lot of golfers transferring out or quitting the team? Does he outright take a scholarship away from a golfer for poor play?

IMO, I have no problem with a coach taking a scholarship away from a player who is problematic, doesn't show up for practice, gets into trouble and doesn't work somewhat hard on their game during the summer. But if a guy is working hard and doing everything he should be doing and his scores are struggling, then the coach needs to own up to the fact that they made a bit of a recruiting error and they shouldn't take away the scholarship.

Unfortunately, a lot of coaches don't see it that way.

I'd also try to hear anything I could from former players and their opinions on their former head coach. Usually former players are pretty candid on this kind of stuff.

And also ask what a typical practice is like. My coach would have us hit golf balls for at least 2 hours straight. Even if we wanted to work on putting, we were stuck hitting balls. Then we would usually go out and play and then get done and maybe practice putting. On the days we didn't play, we'd hit balls for 3 hours straight and then practice on short game. It's provided me with the ability to be focused enought to hit 3 hours worth of golf balls now, but I'm not convinced that it's the best thing for every golfer.






3JACK

[Richie3Jack]

If I was a high school coach, one of the things I would try to do would to think more outside of the box when it comes to the team practicing and playing rounds. Growing up in upstate NY, when the snow lifted we were usually so anxious to get out there and play that playing round after round didn't grow old.

But come about mid-May some of the golfers would start to get bored with playing rounds of golf or that golf was becoming more of a chore than fun.

One of the things I would do to break up the monotony is probably create a 'Big Break' version of practice. I would probably do this for just the starters and maybe a few non-starters who I think can play and have some potential. For the rest who are just learning the game, they really need to work on basics and proper ettiquete.

The one part I of 'Big Break' I think would be helpful is when they paint a white box on the ground from different spots on the hole and then have the golfer's try to shoot the lowest score from that box.

My high school coach's had a lot of autonomy with how they would practice with the kids, but you could probably create some sort of marker on each hole. I would create a 'tee marker' behind and under trees, on sloped lies, etc. and have them keep score from there. For those not too familiar with HS golf, you'd be surprised at how some kids have equal ability and talent but one golfer shoots a consistently lower score just because they play smarter.

So, if your #3 man shoots a really high score, you might want to work on their course management. This also gets golfers out of their comfort zone and shows their true golfing skill versus somebody who just knows the home course really well. You may also want to follow a group around and have each one of them explain their thought process of how they are going to hit the shot.






3JACK

[johngrahamgolf]

It's sad, but this information happens more than I think it should. I coach at a Division III Junior College. This is the lowest level of college golf there is. After talking to many coaches across different divisions and major conference D I schools, it is clear to me that my way of doing things is significantly in the majority. I don't believe golf should be coached like other team sports because it isn't a team sport. Granted, the team score is a 4 of 5 but that's about where it ends. Rich and I have talked about this a bunch over at my forum and I think we are in agreement.

There isn't nearly enough information provided to junior golfers about college golf from high school coaches. Most are in shock when they get to the new school that the person that recruited them has transformed into someone they barely recognize.

Hopefully, their swing coach has had some students go on to college and can provide information and/or a list of questions like Rich provided in his post.

It's tough out there and it takes some serious time management and an ability to stand up for what you need as a player.

[Richie3Jack]

John is exactly right. Most HS coaches are 10+ handicappers who are actually pretty good guys that take the time to teach beginners and teach kids ettiquette and maturity. Unfortunately, most of them don't know a thing about how to get good golfers a scholarship.

I was reading a Golf Digest article about 2 years ago polling college coaches what they look for and I thought it was pretty misleading. Perhaps the magazine didn't interpret what the coaches were saying or the coaches were trying to dissuade lower tier juniors from bothering them.

I actually though the Hank Haney school of golf show was much more realistic in regards to what usually happens when a golfer gets a scholarship, even though it was a bit painful to watch kids who couldn't break 80 getting scholarships because their parents are wealthy and able to afford the contact and association with Haney.

The Golf Magazine article made it sound like that education was such a high priority that a coach will take a lesser golfer with better grades. That's really not what happens.

SAT/ACT scores are important. But, the golfer MUST have the scores and grades that would be required for the average student to be accepted in the college. For instance, if I wanted to get into the U. of Virginia, a big-time golf program, even if I had the ability to be the best player on their team, I would need to meet their grade and SAT score requirements...or they won't even look at me.

So, if you're looking at schools you sort of need to figure out what your likely SAT score will be and then find the schools that meet that SAT score.

Also note that they only give out 5 full scholarships. For the men, the typical setup is 10 players on a team, each given 1/2 scholarship. When I was in school, we got some additional financial aid and it came around to 2/3 of our tuition, room and board paid.

That's big to understand because at Coastal the tuition was only around $11,000/year for out-of-state. So I was paying about $4K a year (which my parents wound up paying). But if you're going to school with a tuition of $30K a year, that's about $12K a year you will have to pay.

However, I believe it's different for the girls. I think they only have 5 player teams (because of the lack of women golfers) and each girl gets a full ride.

Like John mentioned, you should probably look for swing instructors that have students that are college golfers because they likely have connections with college coaches and can help get you onto a team.

Lastly, it's extremely important to get out into some of the national and international tournaments. A sad reality is that there are many scholarship golfers who can't break 80 but got a scholarship mainly due to playing so many AJGA or IJGA tournaments that when they did well in a few of them they could add them to their resume. You may want to find other junior golfers to travel with when going to these tournaments, but they are far more important in getting a scholarship than even playing in state high school tournaments, and even junior state ams.




3JACK

[jerryg]

I have coached high school golf for about 15 years. Over that time we have really only had one player with the ability to qualify for a scholarship for golf and that was at Level II. My calls to the coach of the school he wanted to attend went unanswered, but a call to his swing teacher revealed he knew the coach well. He called and got the kid a scholarship based on his recommendation.
One other fellow who I thought would be a Level I prospect transferred high schools after 10th grade. He ultimately chose attend a small liberal arts college and play at Level III. He has the game and the tenacity to play at any level.
As stated in an earlier post there is more to this than being a good high school golfer. To be considered for a golf scholarship a student must build a resume as a player over at least grades 10-12. Beyond the high school season a player must commit to several high level amateur tournaments in the summer and constantly show improvement over those years. ACT/SAT scores, grades in core courses and solid citizenry need to be tacked on to a solid golf game.
Also as stated above, if a student isn't recruited, there is not much chance of making it. A student from a neighboring school tried to be a walk-on at a Level II school near here, was the low scorer in both days of qualifying and did not make the team.
As for practices, there are many little games on the course, on the range and on the practice green that are devised to keep up the interest and hopefully help to do some skill building.
In the Northern states, we don't have bad weather. We have bad clothing.

[Richie3Jack]

Interesting Jerry. It's a sad joke that the college coach didn't return your calls because I can tell from experience that these guys have about the least busy schedule a grown man can have. But, like I said...you get a lot of coaches that when they are interested they treat you great to recruit you, but then when you get there they transform into a completely different person.




3JACK

[Richie3Jack]

About 6 months ago I had a D-I college coach whose school offers golf scholarships asked me for suggestions on how to make his team better and possibly compete with the bigger schools.

I think the key here is better recruiting. Not in the sense of convincing great HS golfers to come to your school, but in the sense of finding those diamonds in the rough that the other schools pass up on. Chances are unless you show that your team has success or that they have fantastic facilities, you're not going to get those big name recruits.

My college is a good example of how a school turned around its program. When I got there the recruits were mostly guys that signed up and paid good money to be part of a self promotion program and lazy coaches would give a scholarship to. I am dead serious when I say there were guys on the team that couldn't break 85.

Sure, we had some very good players, but when you only have 10 guys on a team and 3-4 of them will almost never break 80 it really hurts depth.

However, they did get lucky with one teammate who was from Canada. He was actually promised a scholarship and then they decided to not give it to him at the last second and he enrolled in the school anyway and threatened a lawsuit if he didn't get his scholarship. Nobody particularly liked the kid because he had an annoying and dorky personality. And when he first got there he couldn't break 80 either. But about a year into the school he suddenly blossomed overnight and was quickly becoming the best player on the team and wound up being a 3 year starter and having some mild success on the Canadian Tour after he graduated.

Eventually the school poured some money into the golf team and developed better facilities, probably in part due to trying to help promote their Pro Golf Management program and they started finding more and more diamonds in the rough and then hit the jackpot of getting Dustin Johnson...a Myrtle Beach native. They are struggling a bit this year, but in the previous 5 years they developed a very solid program. And if you look at the current rankings, you'll see a school like Augusta State ranked 6th and Middle Tennessee State ranked 26th.

When it comes to finding diamonds in the rough, I think it's mandatory to find a golfer that is really hungry and will do just about anything to get better and become the best they can possibly be. They must have a strong work ethic and are not afraid to take instruction. Without those, you will likely never see a golfer reach their potential.

I will say that if I was a college coach in this type of situation where I'm looking for diamonds in the rough, I would always look out for a player who has a solid tourney record, but has a flip in their swing.

Why? Because it shows me that they have developed the rest of their game pretty well and have pretty good timing and if you can get rid of their flip they coud really turn into something. But again, they need a pretty solid tourney record otherwise you're just recruiting a guy who can't play and probably will never be that good.

I would also look for the bombers because the game has developed into a power game and there are usually plenty of huge hitters in HS. In fact, the longest golfer I ever played with was in HS and was a junior when I was a senior. And this is back in the day of balata balls and metal woods and he hit it further than when I played with Jason Gore in the day of titanium woods and the new balls.

Which brings to my point that I think to seek out golfers from colder climates in the north and upper midwest. Many times these golfers are overlooked, in part because there are not many AJGA and IJGA tournaments held in those parts and going to them can be pretty expensive. But, if you can get them in a climate where they are playing 12 months out of the year, they could really blossom into a good golfer.






3JACK

[jerryg]

Maybe there is a D-I coach out there that could respond knowledgeably about this.
My observations are that a kid going to a D-I school is going to see the first year as a red-shirt. He is going to have a basic restructuring of his swing, spend a lot of time in the training room getting stronger, learn how to manage time, and learn how to effectively practice. He will be in school at least 5 years.
What caught the coach's attention in the first place was the ability to score on a course of 6200 to 6600 yards long. Now he will have to spend a year getting ready for a much higher level of competition and considerably longer courses.
I am unsure of the the womens' side of this.

[Richie3Jack]

One of the things to prepare for going into college golf is the higher scoring rounds and the talent you will be around.

I remember looking at a lot of college scores in High School and seeing some courses that I had played before and thinking 'I can shoot that easily.'

Yeah, in the summer.

It's a lot different in college when the spring weather rolls around and the weather is crappy and you only get to warm up for maybe 10 minutes after a long bus ride and/or spending the night in a hotel and a course that is not in great shape. Plus, there isn't the stress of going to college (and I will make posts on how to survive college in future posts in this thread).

It might be a good idea while in HS to go out and play some rounds of golf on the weekend very early in the morning and treat it just like a tournament. It's one of the reasons...and a good reason...why college coaches like golfers who get into the IJGA tournaments because it gives a taste of what playing a college tournament is like.

And when you get on a team you're likely to see some super talented golfers and think that you cannot simply make the team.

I think of Freddy Couples when I think this because quite a few of his college teammates at Houston thought they had no future in the game because some guy named Fred from Seattle could just do things they could never imagine. That didn't mean they couldn't play...it just meant that they were in the presence of a one of a kind, future Hall of Fame golfer.








3JACK

[Richie3Jack]

Each year in HS golf our coach would put us in a classroom and go over the ettiquette of the game and quiz us on it. He would also show us an instructional video. And then we had to spend one day cleaning up the golf course before we were allowed to start practicing there.

The instructional video wasn't very good and I didn't care for the fact that I had to clean a course that *I* (not my parents) paid to be a member at, could I do?

My coach retired after my junior year of HS and a new coach came in and he was also a very good coach. We didn't partake in ettiquette training or instructional videos or even the course cleaning, and instead we went to the local gym and set up mats and a net to hit into while we waited for the snow to melt.

In hindsight, while I liked both coaches, the first coach was right. In my senior year I saw the ettiquette (which I think is important, but I'm not a stickler on it) take a downward turn. And the newer golfers seemed less appreciative of the course.

I think if we were able to combine the two, we'd have something.

The other day I played with a guy who I later found out had joined a group I play with on Tuesdays and Thursdays...and he wasn't well liked. He's a pretty decent golfer and had been playing religiously for 10 years, but only took up the game in his mid-30's. The reason why he wasn't well liked was easy to see...his ettiquette was piss poor.

I could care less at people getting a bit angry or swearing out on the course. It happens, words usually never both me and the game of golf has such a small margin for error that it just makes it so frustrating at times.

But, this guy was out of control with his anger and kept driving way out in front of myself and the other twosome we were paired with (he insisted on having a seperate cart for himself).

We were also paired up with a husband and wife. I had constant friendly dialogue with them, he barely spoke to them. After the round the husband mentioned to me that it looked like the guy really wanted to beat me (and this was the first time I've ever met him) and he was none too happy that he didn't come close (I shot 69 he shot probably around 85 or so).

So the next Tuesday when I played with my regular group, I found he was in the group now but was going to be removed because the other guys didn't like his attitude and ettiquette.

This reminds me a lot of watching the Texas Hold 'Em poker tournaments on TV. This was something that I started watching when I was about 13 years old, well before its boom in popularity. Now I can't bear to watch it mainly because it's filled with a bunch of internet poker players who have never played live poker and have horrific ettiquette.

That's a problem in golf as well...very few new players, particularly juniors...have any ettiquette. I played the club championship with a high school golfer who was a good kid, but it was a real pain in the ass explaining to him that he needed to mark the ball and to not step in my line. Like I said, he was a good kid who just needed a lot of training on ettiquette.

And it does take a LOT of training to learn proper ettiquette. The coach can help with some off course instruction, but if I was a coach I would follow the guys around whose ettiquette skills I think are suspect and see how they do and point out what they are doing wrong and have them do it until they get it correct.

As far as instructional videos, I would probably try to keep things pretty basic for golfers and perhaps consider videos for beginners and videos for more advanced golfers.

One video that can be good for just about any golfer is learning how to see what a proper divot looks like to properly compress the golf ball. This KJ Choi video shows that.



You'd be surprised just how many golfers, including experienced golfers who have no idea that is how it's done. Get the beginners started off on the right foot with the correct concepts.

Board Member Brian Manzella's Rule of 12 video can be a great help to the more experienced golfers.



I would also suggest Brian's Confessions of a Former Flipper for the more experienced golfers as well.

Furthermore, I think David Orr's 'Green Reading 101' and 'Green Reading 201' videos are a must for a high school coach. Of course, I would practice this on the practice green with the team (along with the Rule of 12) so they can do it efficiently and quickly so they don't hold up play.

I think those 3 'premium' videos would cost a total of $60.

For the beginners, I would go over some basic grip stuff. And follow the TGM steps to building a swing of using 'basic', 'acquired', and 'total' motion.





3JACK

[Richie3Jack]

One of the future problems that junior golfers getting into college will face is deciding what to major in.

A harsh reality is that if you're going to play college golf and you're a male, there's a good chance that you may wind up having a career as a school teacher, salesman, or as a golf pro at a course.

Main reason being is that while there's absolutely nothing wrong with these professions, they are usually the profession with almost an unlimited demand for and that it doesn't even take a college degree to get into.

However, while there's nothing wrong with these professions, you need to figure out if working as a school teacher, golf pro or sales is something you would like to do. And if it is, then you may want to consider what school you go to because there's little sense in paying top dollar to become a HS teacher or a salesman or a golf pro.

I actually started off as an accounting major, couldn't hack it with the demands of the major and playing on the golf team and then moved to become a golf pro and then decided against that and just got myself a degree in Marketing. Looking back I probably would've been better off getting a degree in Mathematics and setting myself up for a possible career as an Actuary (which pays well and there's plenty of jobs), but then go to Air Traffic Controller school after graduating for 1 year to become an Air Traffic Controller (a very high paying government job that restricts working hours and has great retirement and there's pretty much 100% placement).

A good way to find out what you want to major in if you don't want to get into the professions I mentioned above is to simply go to internet job boards, find an area you want to live in after college and see what the job market holds, particularly for people beginning their career.

The main major at my alma mater (Coastal Carolina U.) is marine biology. But, there are a few problems with that.

1. About 1/6 Marine Biology students actually graduate (very difficult major)
2. The pay scale is very poor.
3. There are not many jobs available with that major.

I'd hate to see somebody work hard to graduate in a major like that and take out college loans only to find out that they simply cannot get a job because there are so few available.

Lastly, there's always the option of not declaring your major in your freshman year of college. This isn't so bad because most colleges force all of their students to take about one year of the same courses like English 101, Math 101, some type of science, et.c And then from there you can figure out what you want to major in.





3JACK

[jonnygrouville]

Of the junior stuff I played, pretty much everyone turned pro. Only a couple went for golf scholarships, the rest dropped out of school. One is in the top twenty players in the world (played him once, beat him once; won’t be the last time I mention that either ) and the rest are shop pros, amateurs again or looking for their amateur status.

Mixed playing careers. Some decent results on the minor tours and stuff, but a bunch of injuries and things as well.

[Richie3Jack]

What was funny for me is when I went into college I was determined to become a PGA pro and a golf instuctor. I actually had a job coming out of college to get me on the path to develop my own client base and slowly earn a paycheck as an instructor. I was told to start working after Xmas break. Then 2 days before I started they called me up and said they didn't have money in the budget to bring me on.

By then I was becoming a bit burned out and disillusioned with the game and went on a different career path.

Meanwhile, I had a bunch of friends and old teammates that insisted they would never work in a pro shop and that's what they wound up doing. One of my friends who could really play and was a chemical engineering major wound up quitting his major for an easier psychology degree and turned pro and then eventually became a school teacher. Another friend greatly insisted he would never become a club pro and did, but then quit to sell real estate.

But the rest usually said they would never become pros at a club and wound up doing so in the end.





3JACK

[jerryg]

I really appreciate your musings on your coaches, etiquette, the whole 9 yards. I would love to read more or have a discussion over a beer or two or three.
Being at the course after school I also had the opportunity to see the youngsters (5th and 6th graders) coming up as their mothers would drop them off at the course after school. Some would tire of the routine and I could see who kept coming. When those guys got to be in 7th grade I made sure to call their folks and invite them to come out for high school golf.
Two in particular were course rats. They went to the course every day and often would play with older folks, both men and women, throughout the summer. Those kids knew their etiquette and I could use them as teachers for the other guys. They also learned a lot of other lessons about keeping up because they walked and the older folks often rode.
For the rest of us it might not be a bad idea to watch for those young rats around our courses and invite them to join us once in awhile. We should also probably exhibit our best behavior rather than swearing and throwing clubs. I've seen plenty of that from my guys early in the season as well.
Also, as long as we are talking about etiquette, the USGA periodically sends out a video pertaining to golf etiquette. They really should turn that over to a high school video class. They could make it a little more interesting.

[Richie3Jack]

jerryg - I couldn't agree more. I'll get into that in a future post.




3JACK