|
|
Post by kevcarter on Feb 15, 2010 14:41:46 GMT -5
p.s. I am biased in the sense that I believe that serious golfers will greatly benefit if they maximize their knowledge of golf swing mechanics/biomechanics, which requires a great deal of private study and not lessons from a golf instructor.Jeff, Catchy title, huh. Wanted to divert attention to your quote away from a thread I want no part of... ;D I agree 100% and think it merits discussion on it's own, but I may add combining a little guidance. A good friend of mine, who hangs out here has taken this approach, and his ball striking has improved 100%, and with what he has learned could be a top teacher in the area if he wanted to be. His main sources in no particular order are The Golfing Machine and everything he can find about it on the web, including YODA's website, Richie's Blog and Jeff's own research papers. Probably others I am forgetting. He has the good fortune of a little extra time on his hands as well. I've not seen anyone learn this much from any teacher, ever, and I are one...  Kevin |
|
|
|
Post by Richie3Jack on Feb 15, 2010 15:09:24 GMT -5
I still think it's best to go to a teacher. The key is finding the right one. The problem with going to most teachers is that there knowledge on the golf swing is often woefully incomplete. I don't expect an instructor to know every single thing about the swing, but I think there's a difference between having incomplete knowledge and being woefully incomplete with your knowledge.
I think it's important to note that people not only swing differently, but they often *learn* differently and catch onto concepts differently.
There are some people, who truly are very analytical in thought and simplifying things for them can make things worse.
I think there are more of these people in golf than ever given credit for.
I'm not a rocket scientist or an MIT grad or a geometric philosopher by any means, but I need to know as much as I can about EVERY great swing possible.
Why?
Because if I don't, I can't figure out on my own why somebody like Nicklaus hits it great and what to learn from him and what to steer away from. I also need to know why missed shots happen so I can figure out what is the 'common theme' behind my mechanical flaws.
But, I need an instructor to give me the 'why' and the 'how.'
For instance, when I went to see John Dochety I didn't like my head movement, didn't like my shoulders at impact, and didn't like running out of right arm. He then explained to me what was happening (they were all pretty much related to each other) and what I needed to do to correct it and how to do it. Within a week I saw some noticeable improvement in the swing and not by coincidence I saw improvement in my ballstriking.
Still, some things were left to be desired (still running out of right arm) and I joined Lag Erickson's program which is very similar to Dochety's teaching and Lag appears to have a proven method of getting golfer's on the elbow plane (something I also desired to have in my swing), so I joined the program. The main issue with Dochety for me was the travel, a 3.5 hour drive. But I think Lag's modules are really a 'training program' that I can work on at home. And I will most likely go see Dochety again for some live training sometime this year.
Why?
Because live instruction has always worked well for me.
But now I've realized that all that talk I used to hear about 'not using video because it will ruin your swing' or 'you are over-analyzing the swing' and all that garbage is really bad for me and that I really need both an understanding and a teacher who understands more than I do to work with.
3JACK
|
|
|
|
Post by kevcarter on Feb 15, 2010 16:01:56 GMT -5
3Jack,
I actually think you have been the epitome of my post, at least until now.
A bunch of self study, a lot of independent practice and analyzation, along with a little guidance. So far, it looks to have been a great recipe for success.
Kevin
|
|
|
|
Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 15, 2010 18:00:59 GMT -5
Kevin,
You quoted me as follows-: "I am biased in the sense that I believe that serious golfers will greatly benefit if they maximize their knowledge of golf swing mechanics/biomechanics, which requires a great deal of private study and not lessons from a golf instructor."
I highlighted the word "will" in bold. The "correct" word (to more accurately express my opinion) should actually be "may" because not all golfers will benefit by maximizing their knowledge of golf swing mechanics/biomechanics. Some golfers do much better going to a golf instructor, whose opinions they trust, so that they can get the golf instructor to offer tailored advice. I think that my self-analytical/self-modulating approach to golf instruction is only suitable for a small subset of deeply analytical golfers.
Jeff.
|
|
|
|
Post by kevcarter on Feb 15, 2010 18:57:06 GMT -5
LOL, so I agreed with you, and I'm still wrong... :-)
Kevin
|
|
|
|
Post by gmbtempe on Feb 15, 2010 20:16:15 GMT -5
I completely agree with Kev on this one. I have no clue how any harm can be done by serious research that you are passionate about.
This is why I asked Brian on his site in the vjsinger post about knowing ones goals, maybe someone does not want any information and is looking for the quickest, most simple fix possible, they certainly would melt down from imformation overload.
I on the other hand want the opposite, I want to know the why not just the how.
I once had a lesson where the guy little told me to weaken my grip and then just turn harder with my body. I started hitting better as we went through the bucket so to speak, 100 dollars....two weeks later I was in the same spot as before.
|
|
|
|
Post by kevcarter on Feb 15, 2010 20:32:35 GMT -5
I completely agree with Kev on this one. I have no clue how any harm can be done by serious research that you are passionate about. This is why I asked Brian on his site in the vjsinger post about knowing ones goals, maybe someone does not want any information and is looking for the quickest, most simple fix possible, they certainly would melt down from imformation overload. I on the other hand want the opposite, I want to know the why not just the how. I once had a lesson where the guy little told me to weaken my grip and then just turn harder with my body. I started hitting better as we went through the bucket so to speak, 100 dollars....two weeks later I was in the same spot as before. Greg, it sounds as though you are in the hands of someone totally the opposite now. I see you as a 3Jack on maybe a little smaller scale right now. You are working your ass off learning on your own with some direction from the right guy. It's all good now! Kevin |
|
|
|
Post by dodger on Feb 16, 2010 15:57:07 GMT -5
I like to cook. I can take a cooking class and learn to make a dish like gumbo. I then decide to throw some spices in on my own, it tastes great. I add a little extra the next time even better. Then one time it tastes terrible and I start over. I look at the swing the same way. I know my basic issue and build a pattern around fixing it. I have figured out what to add and what to subtract. However sometimes I am lost and need Kevin to take a look at it and get me in the right direction. I consider him a guide. For anyone who is not a rank beginner, a teacher should know where you want to go and provide a guide for getting there. You can take your own shortcut now and then, but you better not go in a different direction. Too often we go in a different direction, from curiosity, whim or boredom. Look at the pros with good swings like Baker-Finch, different direction, got lost.
|
|
jerryg
'88 Apex Redlines
Posts: 100
|
Post by jerryg on Feb 17, 2010 15:30:40 GMT -5
Dodger, you beat me to the punch. I might add your statement is much more eloquent than what I would/will say here.
I suspect Kevin was writing about me. He is way too generous. He got me started on this a couple years ago when I went to see him for a lesson.
Over the past 20 or so years I had gone to several teachers. About 10 years ago one put me on the right track and said I was good to go. Looking back, that was not the case. Two years ago I went to Kev. He saw some pretty ugly stuff and said "we" had to find a solution. Everybody else would say "you" and give me a band-aid. Kev gave me some resources and would check in to see where I was with things. When I get off on a tangent he smiles and points something out to get me back in line. He is, as Dodger states, a guide.
The bibliography Kevin, Dodger, and the others in our group could muster would be rather substantial.
|
|
|
|
Post by dodger on Feb 18, 2010 11:02:32 GMT -5
What really impresses me about Kevin is that he listens as much as he talks. That is the sign of a true professional in any field. If you go to a lesson, get an hour long dissertation about the swing that is the same for everyone, run. I have had those before. I remember going to one guy who was the top teacher in Minnesota one year talking to me for a half hour on how important the pivot is in the swing. By the end of the lesson, he told me I pivoted too much and needed instead to move my arms faster. Talk about confusion.
|
|
|
|
Post by kevcarter on Feb 18, 2010 11:13:19 GMT -5
Thank you very much guys. I really appreciate the kind words. It's a pleasure working with you both. Now if we could only melt that snow and get back outside!
Kevin
|
|
|
|
Post by dodger on Feb 19, 2010 12:01:54 GMT -5
It better melt soon, I am buying too many clubs on ebay with all this snow. I need to hit some golf balls into the wide blue and soon. I have been chipping in the basement a lot, funny, the downswing fall back on the Alberts video has really helped me hit some crispy chips, much to the dismay of my carpet.
|
|
jerryg
'88 Apex Redlines
Posts: 100
|
Post by jerryg on Feb 19, 2010 19:12:15 GMT -5
I would like to add that I also appreciate seeing swing models that may differ from what I would like to think is becoming my own pattern/mental construct. I don't see them as wrong, necessarily, but taking a road I would prefer to avoid. I recently read about a teaching professional that actually advocated an early wrist break. It works for him and may work for his students. I've done that for over 50 years. There are others as well, but I have the feeling and belief that I am on the correct path for me . I now have some "sproing" in the shaft and the ball jumps off the face. I'm sticking with this for awhile.
Getting back to the point, though, is I would agree that it is important to sift through as much material as a person can find. This internet stuff has got to be the best thing going for improvement in golf. Now, if we could just get more people interested and have a bit of a boom again.
|
|
