lmd
Beat up Radials
Posts: 5
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Post by lmd on Jul 15, 2011 10:37:40 GMT -5
***updated swing video on #7 post of this thread*** Hi everyone, I have started learning golf since early Feb this year, after weekly group lessons with my cousins and a local pga pro for 3 months with zero improvement. I terminated the lessons in May and began to self educate with the information available online. I have been a lurker on most of the major golf forums online (Shawn clement/Lynn Blake/Brian Manzella/Iseekgolf) and I also got a copy of the yellow book from a local TGM GSEB. Long story short I could finally FEEL the lag pressure on my pp#3 and pp#1 in my swing and it has changed my swing forever. (switched to hitting recently too) I can finally understand why lag pressure is the “secret” of golf, this is coming from a guy who tops the ball/slice/hitting it thin or fat 8 out of 10 from every shot (from chipping to full swing), now I can pretty hit it crisp as long as I focus on that pressure. Now the biggest problem for me is the startdown from the top, I know what I am SUPPOSE to do (hip bump to the left, let my right shoulder drop down plane + try to achieve pitch elbow BEFORE driving my arms all the way down to china), but in reality my arms just could not resist from driving too early from the top. I am not flipping anymore because I have the feeling on pp#1 and pp#3 throughout the swing +SLIGHT forward leaning shaft @ impact but the lag I have is minimum (losing the right elbow angle wayyyyyy too early). I tried the downswing waggle drills, but I am having problems connecting the 2 actions (hip bump lateral left move arm/club drop down plane THEN extending both arms straight), put the ball in front of me and my head just would not stop driving it from the top. Here are some videos and screenshots: pitching (i find it slowing down my swing helps good contact a lot) 1. pitching with minimum pressure (or at least feel like i am pitching, is this the “END” position for hitter? or can I still go higher than this?) first swing normal address, 2nd swing with impact fix 2. chipping front view 3. normal shot with more pressure (everything seems to fall apart when i swing hard/fast) 4. my shoulder plane just before impact vs a TGM hitter swing on youtube, also the location of our elbows.  I am also having trouble with longer irons too (anything below 6) and my hybrid/drivers are doing big slice/push slices, probably has to do with my angle of attack and maybe releasing my accumulators too early. please help!  |
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Post by cloran on Jul 15, 2011 11:59:06 GMT -5
TGM is A LOT of info to chew on in 5 years, never mind 5 months without hands-on help. Kudos to you for diving in head first!
Others on here will have more constructive info, but you can see in your second video how you don't finish over your left leg. If you are twisting instead of getting a little axis tilt and pivoting into/over your left leg you can certainly shift the path to the left, slice-uh-roonie!
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Post by tightdraw on Jul 15, 2011 17:39:41 GMT -5
it would be helpful to see a FO view of the full swing. Having said that, your arms are very low and never even get up to the shoulder plane on the back swing. your right leg looks like it locks on the BS. it's fine that is straightens; not good if it locks. your slower swing has some nice rhythm to it, not so your full swing. from the DTL view it sure looks like you spin out in your full swing and that you are not driving your right shoulder sufficiently down plane. ON the other hand, you do seem to have several of the pieces in place and seem to have made nice progress. I do think in your full swing you are not using your right shoulder as a spring board to push off the dirving right arm. it seems to all go at once. remember in the hitter motion, you have to start slowly down.
TD
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Post by pavaveda on Jul 15, 2011 19:25:38 GMT -5
Welcome. As a fairly new golfer myself, and one who thought he could self-educate, I can sense the desperation in your post --- particularly if you've had success picking up other skills quickly and can't quite figure out why you can't pick up golf as quickly.
My first piece of advice to you --- and this will have almost nothing to do with the things you've asked -- is to turn your efforts not toward studying harder, but towards finding an instructor in your area [and possibly not even in your area] whose background you feel confident---in an effort to, as Rich says, get 'on track'. This search for an instructor will be difficult, but not nearly as hard as the time and effort you've put into studying the golf swing on your own---but it will be worth it.
And please do not misunderstand me; I am NOT suggesting that you should discontinue your education of the golf swing. You sound like you are off to a great start. TGM, etc. Next should be the D-Plane (if you haven't already grasped the concepts) (Manzella has the best videos on the D-Plane IMO). But I cannot tell you how much of a positive influence an instructor you trust can have on your improvement in the game of golf. Yes, much of it will be left up to you. There will be innumerable opportunities for you to self-educate. But think long and hard about this quote from Greg Norman: "My biggest mistake in my golf career was thinking I could do it myself. I was so determined to do it Greg's way, I was detrimental to myself."
Again, welcome. And welcome to this beautiful game. You've come to the right place. You've started to ask the right questions and seek out the right information. Best of luck.
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lmd
Beat up Radials
Posts: 5
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Post by lmd on Jul 15, 2011 20:46:30 GMT -5
If you are twisting instead of getting a little axis tilt and pivoting into/over your left leg you can certainly shift the path to the left, slice-uh-roonie! the hip bump on the startdown should take care of the axis tilt right? Having said that, your arms are very low and never even get up to the shoulder plane on the back swing. your right leg looks like it locks on the BS. it's fine that is straightens; not good if it locks. your slower swing has some nice rhythm to it, not so your full swing. from the DTL view it sure looks like you spin out in your full swing and that you are not driving your right shoulder sufficiently down plane. ON the other hand, you do seem to have several of the pieces in place and seem to have made nice progress. I do think in your full swing you are not using your right shoulder as a spring board to push off the dirving right arm. it seems to all go at once. remember in the hitter motion, you have to start slowly down. TD thanks, I will get a FO of my normal swing asap. I think I should have added that I have been avoiding lifting my arms to the top because I know I have the startdown problem as I have stated in my original post (hip bump to drop my right shoulder down plane before driving my arms into the aiming point). Can someone please explain the correct startdown procedure as a hitter? do you actively hip bump to the LEFT and drive your right shoulder towards the ball and wait for the elbow to be around the PUNCH or PITCH position before actively straightening both arms again? Or do you actually ACTIVELY DRIVE your right shoulder down plane or as Yoda (lynn blake) stated in 1 video to drive AGAINST your right shoulders from the TOP then straightens when you get around the punch elbow position? Because your hips should auto clears like when you are trying to punch someone on your left when you're facing forward. Hopefully 3Jack can comment on this too Welcome. As a fairly new golfer myself, and one who thought he could self-educate, I can sense the desperation in your post --- particularly if you've had success picking up other skills quickly and can't quite figure out why you can't pick up golf as quickly. My first piece of advice to you --- and this will have almost nothing to do with the things you've asked -- is to turn your efforts not toward studying harder, but towards finding an instructor in your area [and possibly not even in your area] whose background you feel confident---in an effort to, as Rich says, get 'on track'. This search for an instructor will be difficult, but not nearly as hard as the time and effort you've put into studying the golf swing on your own---but it will be worth it. And please do not misunderstand me; I am NOT suggesting that you should discontinue your education of the golf swing. You sound like you are off to a great start. TGM, etc. Next should be the D-Plane (if you haven't already grasped the concepts) (Manzella has the best videos on the D-Plane IMO). But I cannot tell you how much of a positive influence an instructor you trust can have on your improvement in the game of golf. Yes, much of it will be left up to you. There will be innumerable opportunities for you to self-educate. But think long and hard about this quote from Greg Norman: "My biggest mistake in my golf career was thinking I could do it myself. I was so determined to do it Greg's way, I was detrimental to myself." Again, welcome. And welcome to this beautiful game. You've come to the right place. You've started to ask the right questions and seek out the right information. Best of luck. I am lucky to have a TGM instructor in my area its just that I cannot afford lessons at the moment, so before then I will have to continue to self educate for now. You are right, finding the right coach is important. The last PGA AAA coach I had could not spot my over the top, flipping, off plane errors after 3 months. I get generalized advice like keep your arm straight, keep your head still, keep your eye on the ball and oh here's a gem - i specifically asked him is address position = impact position and he actually said Yes (and no we weren't using impact fix), that's when I had my last session with him. |
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Post by tightdraw on Jul 16, 2011 15:23:01 GMT -5
ok let me try to help as best i can. First, you should not lift your arms, but on a proper back swing your hands should be able to reach shoulder or ear height. I do not use a hitter's motion now, but I have in the past. the standard hitter backswing is as follows. What is optional is whethre you have impact fix address or mid body address. the standard backswing is right forearm to the top with extensor action straightening an inert left arm. some like Lynn Blake have a flatter shoulder turn than do others. I always believe in roughly 90* to the inclination of the spine at address. Head centered. now to start the downswing you need a way to be going in two different directions to increase the stretch in your muscles. the way to do this typically is to bump left with the hip while using extensor action with the right arm extending and being reigned in by the left. this also delays the shoulder involvement/rotation allowing teh hips to go first in the sequence. at that point you should think of a straight line delivery into the back of the ball and through it into the turf with no forearm roatation; like a piston/punch motion. just like an effective punch you drive but increase acceleration starting rhythmically and slowly.
hope this helps
TD
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lmd
Beat up Radials
Posts: 5
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Post by lmd on Jul 16, 2011 20:58:30 GMT -5
ok let me try to help as best i can. First, you should not lift your arms, but on a proper back swing your hands should be able to reach shoulder or ear height. I do not use a hitter's motion now, but I have in the past. the standard hitter backswing is as follows. What is optional is whethre you have impact fix address or mid body address. the standard backswing is right forearm to the top with extensor action straightening an inert left arm. some like Lynn Blake have a flatter shoulder turn than do others. I always believe in roughly 90* to the inclination of the spine at address. Head centered. now to start the downswing you need a way to be going in two different directions to increase the stretch in your muscles. the way to do this typically is to bump left with the hip while using extensor action with the right arm extending and being reigned in by the left. this also delays the shoulder involvement/rotation allowing teh hips to go first in the sequence. at that point you should think of a straight line delivery into the back of the ball and through it into the turf with no forearm roatation; like a piston/punch motion. just like an effective punch you drive but increase acceleration starting rhythmically and slowly. hope this helps TD awesome, thanks tightdraw ill report back with videos from DTL and FO. (wish my casio FC150 camera isnt broken :/, i had it mount on my old cart bag while taking a DTL video then a strong wind blew and it fell and my bag crushed it) |
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lmd
Beat up Radials
Posts: 5
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Post by lmd on Jul 17, 2011 3:05:34 GMT -5
today I focused on doing the correct startdown properly, it certainlly feels VERY different/weird (which is good) from what I have been doing (driving from the top), here are some of the videos - I know the motion is quite jerky, but I am slowly educating my hands/hips/shoulder to drop down plane b4 driving it. You can see during the waggle my elbow drop to pitch position and retaining that elbow angle, but during the real swing I am still straightening way too early, guess it takes time to learn delaying the trigger. downswing waggle: DTL www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXNg2jRz_yUdownswing waggle: FO www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2h89j7hBg8real swing DTL www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehKI2Uh-uRAreal swing FO www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWm6QoMXbGsam I heading towards the right direction? thanks guys edit: i noticed I have pop out on my backswing, will try fix it next time |
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lmd
Beat up Radials
Posts: 5
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Post by lmd on Jul 22, 2011 18:37:28 GMT -5
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Post by rcelano on Feb 5, 2012 18:14:41 GMT -5
Some people bump their left hip and turn their hips at the same time to start the downswing and others kick out their left leg and turn their hips to start. What is important is to keep the relationship of the left arm to the chest the same from the top of the backswing to the slot position. In other words, although the hips are starting to turn and the weight is shifting left the left arm stays passive for that short time. When in the slot the shoulders need to be in a closed position. If they are square like at setup then by the time you get to impact they will be too far open creating a slice or a pull depending on how the clubface is at impact.
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