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Post by gmbtempe on Feb 18, 2010 12:35:27 GMT -5
Makes sense to me, I would imagine you feel #4 released the most in a one plane swing as taught by Hardy, they say to turn that shoulder as fast and hard left as you can.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 18, 2010 17:17:27 GMT -5
Greg,
I also think that a Hardy OPS golfer will a have greater correlation between the degree of pressure-sensation lessening at PP#4 and the degree of PA#4 release because the shoulders are rotating more steeply and therefore closer in vectorial direction with the direction of movement of the left arm, which is moving down-and-forwards towards the ball.
Jeff.
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Post by TeddyIrons on Feb 19, 2010 2:04:58 GMT -5
Teddy, However, I do not believe that saving any PA#4 and/or PA#1 for release after impact makes sense from a swing power perspective (because ball speed is determined by clubhead speed and not any "heavy hit" phenomenon), although it may give a golfer better control of his clubshaft through the impact zone. Jeff. Jeff, it sounds counter-intuitive I know. however, saving some PA4 and PA1 is first of all about ball control - keeping the arms pinned and going left post-impact is about being on plane. Also, this move means we move in a tighter circle - when the arms fly off the chest our torso will slow down. Keeping the arms pinned, which includes keeping some right arm bend, means we can turn quicker.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 19, 2010 2:13:41 GMT -5
Teddy,
I can understand, and accept your point, that one may be better be able to control the clubshaft through impact with an active pivot action where the arms are more closely connected to the rotating torso. My point about releasing the power accumulators fully in the downswing only has relevance to the idea of maximizing swing power.
Jeff.
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Post by TeddyIrons on Feb 19, 2010 4:02:12 GMT -5
Teddy, I can understand, and accept your point, that one may be better be able to control the clubshaft through impact with an active pivot action where the arms are more closely connected to the rotating torso. My point about releasing the power accumulators fully in the downswing only has relevance to the idea of maximizing swing power. Jeff. Jeff, in your opening post you said: "I believe that it is wrong to release PA#4 after releasing PA#2/3 and I believe that it makes no sense to release any PA after impact because the power accumulators are used to power the swing and maximise clubhead speed at impact - which means that they must be released prior to impact." I guess it depends on what is considered as having been released with regards to PA#4 or any other accumulator. However, I think we'd both agree that we would want all power accumulators to have something left in them at impact. A released power accumulator before impact means deceleration and loss of club head speed. Is this not why we talk about "running out of right arm"? And this is valid whether an ABS hitter or a TGM hitter. The thing with Power accumulators is that they don't release in a millisecond - they each have their own duration and sequencing, and must be utilised to provide maximum club speed. For a CF hitter they are all released when both arms are straight after impact. For an ABS hitter the idea is that #1 and #4 are fully released when the club is vertical after impact. To an extent these are intentions, and may not be fully achievable, but they make a difference. As JE has said, he releases some of PA #4 early in the downswing, but maintains enough through and beyond impact. I think that in any good swing, Pressure point #4 should be present beyond impact, which means that PA #4 must not be fully released before impact.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 19, 2010 10:49:17 GMT -5
Teddy,
You wrote-: "For an ABS hitter the idea is that #1 and #4 are fully released when the club is vertical after impact. To an extent these are intentions, and may not be fully achievable, but they make a difference."
Homer Kelley stated that a TGM swinger and hitter should release their power accumulators by the end of the followthrough.
What difference does it make in terms of swing power if one maintains some PA#4/PA#1 loading through impact/followthrough and only releases PA#4 and PA#1 fully after the end of the followthrough?
Jeff.
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Post by TeddyIrons on Feb 19, 2010 11:27:51 GMT -5
Teddy, You wrote-: "For an ABS hitter the idea is that #1 and #4 are fully released when the club is vertical after impact. To an extent these are intentions, and may not be fully achievable, but they make a difference." Homer Kelley stated that a TGM swinger and hitter should release their power accumulators by the end of the followthrough. What difference does it make in terms of swing power if one maintains some PA#4/PA#1 loading through impact/followthrough and only releases PA#4 and PA#1 fully after the end of the followthrough? Jeff. I'm speaking from my limited understanding here, about the whys of this way. My feeling is that releasing these two accumulators so late promotes a very active post impact thrust, and this ensures against a pivot stall through the impact area. As said earlier, it also allows one to rotate more forcefully. However, I'm not convinced this is just about power - in fact if anything, it's more about accuracy through staying on plane. JE will have a better explanation, and may discuss the 5th accumulator that you disagree with and which honestly I don't fully understand.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 19, 2010 11:39:05 GMT -5
Teddy,
As I previously stated, I agree that a golfer can benefit with an active pivot action through impact - in terms of clubshaft control through impact. To keep the clubshaft on-plane between impact and the 4th parallel, the golfer must "swing left". A good pivot action through impact, so that the clubshaft moves in a CP release fashion through impact, promotes this phenomenon. In that sense, I agree - but a good pivot action is characteristic of many professional golfers. It doesn't require JE's ABS-hitting action to pivot well to the left after impact.
I also don't understand JE's description of a 5th power accumulator.
I personally find many of JE's posts in his ABS forum to be incomprehensible. I joined the ABS forum for a few weeks, but I found his responses to my inquiring posts too opaque and too incomprehensible - so I no longer participate in his forum. Although I disagree with many of JE's explanations, I think that he has a superb (A+++) swing, and I think that he is a perfect role model for golfers who want to use his swing style.
Jeff.
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Post by TeddyIrons on Feb 19, 2010 16:55:51 GMT -5
Teddy, I personally find many of JE's posts in his ABS forum to be incomprehensible. I joined the ABS forum for a few weeks, but I found his responses to my inquiring posts too opaque and too incomprehensible - so I no longer participate in his forum. Although I disagree with many of JE's explanations, I think that he has a superb (A+++) swing, and I think that he is a perfect role model for golfers who want to use his swing style. Jeff. I understand just about everything JE says. It took me a while to get there, but maybe because I'm starting to feel some of this stuff, some lightbulbs went off. I hope you reconsider engaging Lag on his stuff, especially on the 5th power accumulator. If I recall correctly, he wanted you to first understand his idea that using irons a few degrees flat would result in a reduced margin of error horizontally. That I understand. From there perhaps the discussion would have progressed. Would be great if you took it up again.
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