tball88
'88 Apex Redlines
Posts: 139
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Post by tball88 on Sept 5, 2011 10:21:51 GMT -5
Rich, love your stats and information on how tour players are scoring. With all of the success with belly putters recently, I wondered if you had stats to show if they are actually helping. I've actually considered giving it a try, as my ball striking is as good as it ever has been, but I'm murdering myself on the green.
A couple of things I would like to know.
On average, do guys using belly are long putters, doing better than those who don't use a long or belly putter.
are those that switch to a belly putter, really seeing an improvement in their putting statistics.
Thanks
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Post by gmbtempe on Sept 5, 2011 10:41:02 GMT -5
Well Phil is 30th in putting this week and says he has not made a thing ( :
I think its a good question.
A guy like Stewart Cink was horrid putter, then switched to the belly putter and went to the top of the stats but then dumped it anyways to go back to conventional and back down the stats....but he did win the British.
I do wonder though if the better gauge is not the horrid putters looking to save them from the yips but the young kids who are starting with it from day one.
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tball88
'88 Apex Redlines
Posts: 139
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Post by tball88 on Sept 5, 2011 10:46:06 GMT -5
Interesting point on Cink, I think after he switched to a long putter, didn't he go on a streak of like 350 holes without a three putt? Makes you wonder why he switched back...
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Post by rohlio on Sept 5, 2011 12:20:40 GMT -5
Interesting point on Cink, I think after he switched to a long putter, didn't he go on a streak of like 350 holes without a three putt? Makes you wonder why he switched back... ego |
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Post by Richie3Jack on Sept 5, 2011 18:56:45 GMT -5
It's on an individual basis, but my answer...for the most part...is no.
Yeah, Phil finished '30th' in putting this week. Well, those are traditional metrics which are inherently flawed. But notice how Phil said 'I didn't make a thing.'
He wasn't truly putting better, he was striking it much better and leaving himself with shorter putts.
For the most part, Adam Scott, really didn't improve his putting until late. He was 170th going into Firestone, then jumped to 133rd after Firestone. So essentially he putted like shit for almost the entire year with the long putter and then recently got hot. Now he's ranked 119th, which is better than it was last year, but not exactly great putting either (really, below average). And he was ranked 1st with the standard putter back in 2004.
Even though she's playing on a different level, I remember when Bri Vega started using a long putter and started having success with it and then about a year later lost the 'magic' and went back to a standard putter and still can't putt.
I think in general, that's what will happen to 95% of the population. They'll have some short term success with it and eventually dump it and go back to the short putter and still struggle.
Guys like Rocco are probably more of the norm (use it, dump it, go with a standard putter and still putt poorly).
The highest ranked putter with a belly or long putter is either McCarron (not sure if he's still using a long putter) at 19th or Pettersson at 22nd.
I'll probably write an essay on this in the book.
But in short...I am not in favor of it.
3JACK
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Post by rohlio on Sept 5, 2011 23:04:01 GMT -5
This is going to suffer from the same arguments that S&T guys get..."If it is so good then why are they not winning all the time?".
The truth of the matter is that the reason guys try alternate putting styles is because they aren't happy with their putting. You generally aren't going to get the guys in the top 20 in putting switching over. So the only way to generate a reasonably informative statistic is to compare before and afters of the same guy. Then you need a large sample size (length of time) for the sae individual since it takes a long time for an individual to average out according to the law of big numbers.
I believe a lot of the reason that people putt better for a while after they make a switch is not because what they switched to is better. It is simply because it is different. It allows them to get out of their own head for a while and if they are excited about it they probably feel more positively towards what they are doing engendering better results. Also when they miss a putt or two they can say to themselves "I am just getting used to X" instead of having to say "Why do I suck at putting?". Inevitably a few bad putting days creep in along with the realization that it is no longer just lack of familiarity and the individual goes back to their default mindset. They become the same guy missing the same putts with a different putter. I see it all the time with drivers too.
It all goes to show that you can't purchase (or in the pro's case, have someone give you) a game.
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Post by Richie3Jack on Sept 5, 2011 23:11:32 GMT -5
It's kinda funny to me because 15 years ago I think most people would've eschewed the move of any Tour player using a belly or long putter. Now they seem to be rooting them on. I do remember Rocco being 'cheered on' when he had the long putter, but he was a fan favorite that people wanted to see do well and he was having back issues. I think I recall Crenshaw saying he would probably putt with his 5-iron before putting with that. I encourage all of my fellow amateurs to disregard my thoughts on the belly putter and long putter because it means that they just don't 'get' putting and in the end...I win  Seriously, that's probably my issue with these longer putters...the golfers that use them are focusing on the wrong things with putting. I worry more about maximize the capture width of the hole on every putt...these guys are more worried about their stroke and their 'line.' I firmly believe my way is superior. 3JACK |
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Post by kamandi on Sept 6, 2011 0:01:58 GMT -5
To me, the belly putters and broomsticks are not only putters, but devices that mechanically aid you in anchoring your putter for a more consistent swing. How is this not a swing aid?
No matter, since they are legal, they definitely give a mechanical advantage and a less error prone swing, so more power to those that use them.
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tball88
'88 Apex Redlines
Posts: 139
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Post by tball88 on Sept 6, 2011 7:02:56 GMT -5
not sure where Webb Simpson ranks, but he has been using his belly putter like a magic wand the last few weeks. He has an interesting stroke with it though, he doesn't appear to me to be using his shoulders but actually just pushing it back and forth with his arms.
3 putts on the last three holes yesterday, not bad.
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Post by Richie3Jack on Sept 6, 2011 7:32:04 GMT -5
Webb Simpson currently ranks 46th.
3JACK
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