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Post by golfdad on Sept 19, 2011 6:20:35 GMT -5
I have read somewhere, probably on this site, that Ritchie went through the process of getting an Edel putter, if i am not mistaken. I wonder how his putting is like since then. I also saw John Graham had a write-up on his site, that he got one eventually. At what level of proficiency should a golfer consider getting one? My kids are still at the stage where they are still trying to improve or "find" what work for them set-up wise, stroke wise, etc, so i am not sure they have a set way to putt yet. When is it too early to go for an eval, considering that any putting setup changes may change things? Am i making sense?  THanks. |
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Post by tightdraw on Sept 19, 2011 9:18:31 GMT -5
i played with Richie in May and putted once or twice with his putter, loved it, and immediately upon returning to NYC sought out an Edel fitting. I have mine now and i have never putted with more confidence. I have putted with more success -- but that's a statement about my deteriorating skills in general.
To me there are three parts to putting:
Green reading
stroke pattern
aim
The Edel putter is directed at the third of these. You might think that the putter will change over time in response to stroke pattern, but I don't think that is likely. It might change in response to physical or body changes -- especially in height, but I have been playing since i was around 12 yrs old and I am 64 now and my putting stroke has only changed minimally -- especially when compared to other changes in my swing and my body.
I think if you find a putter that aims where you think you are aimed and which feels comfortable at address and in your basic stroke, you won't change much over time. To me its like wearing good shoes or sleeping on a good mattress. My parents were very poor and we didn't do either. By the time I could afford either, it was too late. Get the right fitted putter in their hands young and they will develop the right habits for putting.
That's my view anyway. But Edel putters are expensive and note easily resellable I would think -- since they are customized.
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Post by rohlio on Sept 19, 2011 10:17:17 GMT -5
I think if you find a putter that aims where you think you are aimed and which feels comfortable at address and in your basic stroke, you won't change much over time. To me its like wearing good shoes or sleeping on a good mattress. My parents were very poor and we didn't do either. By the time I could afford either, it was too late. Get the right fitted putter in their hands young and they will develop the right habits for putting. That's my view anyway. But Edel putters are expensive and note easily resellable I would think -- since they are customized. Jules always writes what I am thinking more eloquently than I am able with short handed internet speech. In regards to the long term usage you can always have a longer shaft added and the lie angle adjusted as they grow. If the putter is correct for their physiology (eye dominance, swing type, etc) now, it will most likely be for a long time with minor adjustments. I was recently helping a colleague with his swing. He literally could not hit a shot more than about 10 feet off the ground, everything was bladed. He had been setting up for 5+ years (since he started playing the game) with the ball off of his lead toe for his irons! The thing is he has an amazingly athletic and consistent motion, but it has been totally handicapped by his setup. His body has introduced all kinds of oddities because of his ball position. If somebody had told him 5 years ago to move the ball closer to the middle of his stance, I have no doubt he could be a scratch ball striker right now. Before we fixed anything else I made him spend a week in front of a mirror just getting used to looking down at the ball in the middle of his stance. That was a long way of saying, get them into what fits them now and reap the benefits later, or the contrary. |
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Post by golfdad on Sept 20, 2011 7:10:48 GMT -5
Hello Tightdraw and Rohlio, thank you both for the informative suggestions. Do you have some fitters that you highly recommend in the NJ area?
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Post by Richie3Jack on Sept 20, 2011 7:56:37 GMT -5
I really love my Edel putter. Even though I had 34 putts yesterday with two 3-putts, I had some things working against me like the speed of the greens being far faster than what I typically putt on, tournament nerves, etc.
But, I had 9 putts on the last 6 holes...making a 15 footer, 20 footer and a crucial 5 footer on the last hole. Don't think I could have done that without the Edel.
The thing about putters is that they more often than not do affect the putting stroke. Aim left...you are likely to find a way to 'push' your stroke to get the ball to the ball to the hole.
For me, I was aiming well to the right of the target. So I would aim right and pull my stroke left.
All I am trying to do...whether it be the swing or the putting stroke or the chip shot, etc...is trying to figure out what parts are giving me trouble and why....then reduce or eliminate the compensations.
There are golfers who are great putters who can make compensations similar to what I was doing. Loren Roberts has been measured by SAM Puttlab to aim 2* left at address, then cut across the ball...but open the face enough to get it at 0* square to the target at impact.
He can do that time and time again. But, I'm willing to guess that most golfers cannot. And instead, they need to get the putter aimed closer to the target at address and thus don't have to worry about making compensations mid-stroke.
I saw it quite a bit at the AimPoint clinic with John Graham. A golfer would aim left, push it right. Then John would get them to aim at the target and they would still push it right because they had ingrained those compensations. The only difference is that they don't get the results that Loren Roberts gets.
I know Edels are not cheap. But I got mine because I figured I would pay the extra money if I was confident that I would own it for 8-10 years. In the end, I'll save money (and frustration) than if I bought a new putter from an OEM every year or so.
I feel the same could happen for your children although I would be a bit concerned with the length and weight of the putter as they grow. I would probably e-mail Edel about it. They have never given me the hard sell on anything and are pretty up front and honest.
3JACK
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Post by golfdad on Sept 20, 2011 8:44:36 GMT -5
Thanks Ritchie for another helpful post. In Graham's article, he talked about that during the testing process he found one putter with certain weight to be particular helpful with longer distance control. Was choosing the proper weight for you also a revelation?
Yes, your point about changing height is a good one since my younger one is still growing fast, but the older one seems to be stabilizing.
So you maintained the same putting stroke before and after using Edel,,correct?
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Post by Richie3Jack on Sept 20, 2011 9:19:59 GMT -5
My stroke changed a bit (for the better) because I didn't have to make the compensation for aiming right of the target at address.
Here's a video showing *part* of the Edel fitting process
The golfer in the video aims pretty close to square, so the video didn't take a long time. But typically a fitting will be about 45 minutes, particularly if you aim well off like I did.
First, they try to find the best putter head, hosel and loft combination.
Certain heads affect the way a golfer aims the putter. Same with the hosel. The more loft causes the golfer to aim more to the left. Less loft...more to the right.
Edel wants to find a loft where the laser doesn't point too high or low (shaft lean) and helps aim at the cup as well.
After they find the head, hosel and loft....they start working with the alignment lines and sight dots. Different lines and dots cause different types of aim.
Once they get that down, they usually work with the weight of the putter.
On faster greens, heavier putters work better. Slower greens, lighter putters work better. They have a test where they have you hit to a line and see if you can hit that line and ask what feels best. If you get the Vari-Weight putter, you can adjust the weight. So they'll give you a 'base weight' that fits your stroke, and then if you are on slower greens....make the putter lighter. If on faster greens...add weight to the putter.
Then they fit the golfer for the shaft. This also is tested thru speed control and what the golfer's putting stroke is like. IIRC, the golfer with a wristy stroke will get a stiffer shaft wherease more of a pendulum, smooth stroke gets a more flexible shaft.
Then they can add all of the bells and whistles like the pixl insert (I think it's like a $35 upcharge), what type of grip you want, engraving, paintfill color, etc.
3JACK
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Post by golfdad on Sept 21, 2011 6:26:30 GMT -5
Thanks again for the great info. Did you get fitted in Orlando? Anyone you highly recommend?
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Post by Richie3Jack on Sept 21, 2011 7:31:11 GMT -5
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Post by tightdraw on Sept 24, 2011 21:54:06 GMT -5
I am sorry for not having seen this earlier.
First, Rohlio, you are way too kind and sell yourself very short.
Second, Golfdad, while I don't know any fitters in New Jersey, I did get fitted in NYC at Fuzion Golf /Drive 495 by Kevin Walker who is the President of Fuzion Golf. I concur with Richie re: the fitting process. It took me about 45 minutes to get fit. We started with my putter which it turns out I aimed a full 8* to the right; so I aimed right and pulled to compensate. When I first got the Edel putter I hit everything left. but it didn't take long before I started putting significantly better.
Even more significantly, I have a confidence on the greens that was previously unknown to me
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Post by Richie3Jack on Sept 25, 2011 7:44:32 GMT -5
Yes, short putts...much more confidence.
When I did mine, I was aimed so far right that I was almost aimed off the black screen behind the plastic cup target.
I wish I was kidding.
3JACK
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roh
Apex II's
Posts: 53
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Post by roh on Sept 25, 2011 15:08:55 GMT -5
There is an authorized dealer in stamford, CT. now. Hit it Downtown or Downtown Golf, not sure of the current name. Good guys in there. I think I have to do this at this point. I can actually walk over to the store from my office.
This thread actually got me thinking about having my kids go through the process. Even if I didn't get them Edels, you could probably get an idea of what kind of head design they aim best. Maybe they could avoid ingraining a stroke with a lot of compensations if they aimed correctly.
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Post by golfdad on Sept 26, 2011 8:34:48 GMT -5
Thank you for the helpful info, guys. I am thinking of having my older one to go through the process first because one, she is a more stable putter (stroke wise and form wise), and i think this process may as some of you have stated give her even more confidence. Imo she has improved a lot as a putter in the past year (rarely 3 putts, but rarely 1 putt! Incidentally, here is something else FYI. She wears glasses and because of her astigmatism, there is really no good contact lens out there. On our most recent eye exam, the eye doc noticed that her 2 eyes are not that level with each other horizontally, meaning the tiny differences is a little bigger than the normal variants. So the eye doc even adjusted the lens orientation a bit to accommodate that,,I am really not sure about the physics with that. Anyway, I have always wondered how she perceives a line down the line and in particular how she perceives it sideways when lining up a putt and consequently how she lines up the putter. she is a obsessively methodical person:) so any situation can work for or against her depending on which side she is on:) anyway, thanks. I may drag her into one of the stores mentioned above end of the year when outside golf comes to a halt. |
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carland
'88 Apex Redlines
Posts: 152
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Post by carland on Oct 1, 2011 13:31:01 GMT -5
If a mallet with a lot of lines tends to cause you to aim left, can drawing a line on the golf ball then aligning that line to the target line help to overcome the putter's aim bias? Or does Edel find that you still fight the aim bias even with a line on the golf ball?
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Post by Richie3Jack on Oct 1, 2011 17:32:28 GMT -5
If a mallet with a lot of lines tends to cause you to aim left, can drawing a line on the golf ball then aligning that line to the target line help to overcome the putter's aim bias? Or does Edel find that you still fight the aim bias even with a line on the golf ball? I remember David Orr saying that drawing a line on the ball and using that to aim more or less had no affect on a person's aim. If they aim left, using the line on the ball will still get them to aim left for most golfers. The other thing is that by adding lines...you can just make your brain go even more haywire trying to interpret where to aim. 3JACK |
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