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Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 23, 2010 11:29:32 GMT -5
Greg, I think that many golfers who try to use the S&T swing (without guided instruction from a S&T instructor) probably end up using a rightwards-centered backswing action - like Mike McNary. I think that's a wonderful swing action, which should work very well for low point control. I also think that he proves that a golfer doesn't need to adopt the S&T swing to acquire superb low point control. A golfer just needs to remain centralised (right-centralised) and avoid any swaying motion to the right in the backswing. Here is another swing video of Mike McNary. www.youtube.com/watch#v=IC1CL8o0rAEIn this swing, he remains right-centered in the backswing. Even more importantly, he doesn't use an assertive left-lateral pelvic slide action in this particular swing - note that the outer border of his left pelvis never gets outside his left foot in the late downswing/followthrough. He is using Hogan's rotary "left hip clearing" action in this particular swing. Jeff.
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Post by vjsinger on Feb 23, 2010 12:02:52 GMT -5
I've never seen McNary's swing before. I really like it alot. I also like the description you gave Jeff. This is the action I aspire to perform. To me it is efficient, looks powerful and isn't hard on the back in the finish. It is definetly doable for someone like me, who is a former football player and 6'3" and 260.
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Post by gmbtempe on Feb 23, 2010 12:14:37 GMT -5
I have never found a down the line view of his swing if anyone has seen one.
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Post by gmbtempe on Feb 23, 2010 12:18:11 GMT -5
Greg, I think that many golfers who try to use the S&T swing (without guided instruction from a S&T instructor) probably end up using a rightwards-centered backswing action - like Mike McNary. I think that's a wonderful swing action, which should work very well for low point control. I also think that he proves that a golfer doesn't need to adopt the S&T swing to acquire superb low point control. A golfer just needs to remain centralised (right-centralised) and avoid any swaying motion to the right in the backswing. Here is another swing video of Mike McNary. www.youtube.com/watch#v=IC1CL8o0rAEIn this swing, he remains right-centered in the backswing. Even more importantly, he doesn't use an assertive left-lateral pelvic slide action in this particular swing - note that the outer border of his left pelvis never gets outside his left foot in the late downswing/followthrough. He is using Hogan's rotary "left hip clearing" action in this particular swing. Jeff. I completely agree Jeff... Denny has told me that the right shoulder never moves farther to the right in the golf swing. Now I guess if you break it down frame by frame it might ever so slightly but if you look at Mike his shoulder moves back, not right, I don't think this is understood by the masses, they want to sway off the ball for power. I don't see this in good ball strikers.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 23, 2010 12:42:09 GMT -5
VJ I also like this Mike McNary swing a lot. He looks he is simply rotating around a rightwards tilted spine in the backswing, and rotating his torso in a natural manner in the downswing. I like his finish - standing straight up (erect) over a straight left leg with no reverse C tilting (as seen in S&T golfers who obsessively want to keep their upper swing center stationary in the followthrough/finish). I think that there is no excessive latriflexion forces in play regarding his lumbar spine in his downswing action - and I therefore think that it is a biomechanically safe swing. Greg, I agree that he not swaying to the right in his backswing, He is simply rotating his upper torso around his rightwards-tilted spine (as I have previously described in many previous threads). I also think that his pelvis is rotating relatively horizontally without any exaggerated right pelvis uplifting in the backswing and without any exaggerated left pelvis uplifting in the late downswing. I think that there is considerable biomechanical similarity between this particular Mike McNary swing and Stuart Appleby's swing. www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYNRs9Vcxkg&NR=1Jeff.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 23, 2010 13:01:14 GMT -5
Greg, I have just found this MOG swing. He looks like Mike McNary in that previously-mentioned swing video. www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9-8xeS6yj8&NR=1He has a rightwards-centered backswing swing action. He rotates his pelvis relatively horizontally and he uses the Hogan "left hip clearing" action, and he doesn't allow the outer border of his left pelvis to move outside his left foot in the late downswing/followthrough. He has a non-reverse C finish, and he stands erect over a straight left leg in his finish. He, like Mike McNary (in that particular swing video), has the type of traditional rightwards-centered backswing swing style action that I was promoting in my review paper on the S&T swing - as a biomechanically natural swing alternative to the S&T swing. Jeff.
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Post by gmbtempe on Feb 23, 2010 21:50:29 GMT -5
Greg, Regarding Mike' swing - three questions regarding your understanding of his EB. Where do you think his EB's straight line section is situated, where is the end-pulley situated and when does the club enter the end pulley section, and when does he start to release the club? Does he have a sweep, random, late or snap release? Please use the face of a clock to describe your answer eg. 10 o'clock. Jeff. p.s. I think that he is not using a leftwards-centered backswing swing style (S&T swing) in this particular swing action. I think that he has a rightwards-centered backswing action in this particular swing. Jeff, I drew a spline of the hand path in red and I drew a line where I think the belt starts and where the belt takes its turn around the corner. Mike's swing is not nearly as long as Sadlowski's so I think the belt is positioned much different. I think at the end of the line I drew is where he accelerates the club into impact. I think its a snap release.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 24, 2010 1:20:49 GMT -5
Greg,
I cannot understand that yellow line.
What does that straight yellow line represent?
Does that yellow line represent the straight line section of your EB - starting at the top-left hand end?
Where is the end pulley of your EB?
Jeff.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 24, 2010 12:33:52 GMT -5
Greg, I have produced a detailed explanation of how I perceive Mike McNary's club release phenomenon. I believe that he has a random release pattern, and not a snap release pattern. Because my explanation is so long, I have produced an audio commentary as a mp3 file that lasts 17 minutes. One can download it and listen to it with a media player eg. Windows media player. perfectgolfswingreview.net/AudioMcNaryRelease.mp3I will be referring to 4 images in my audio commentary. Image 1 Image 2 Image 3 Image 4 Even if you do not agree with my opinions, I hope that you find my audio commentary interesting. Jeff.
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Post by gmbtempe on Feb 24, 2010 16:35:35 GMT -5
Jeff, That was great, very educational...I learned a lot in that 17 minutes, you should do more of those, very cool I had the beginning of his belt starting at your image number 2, then I had it making the turn at your image number 4, and then impact would be the end. Granted I had little to no scientific data to support that, just looking at the images and using my understanding of what people have discussed about the belt, and the image from the book. I certainly understand and can believe your logic in the straight section of 3 and 4 not providing any angular momentum.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 24, 2010 19:13:54 GMT -5
Greg,
Based on your yellow line - I suspected that you had the EB's end pulley positioned at the impact position, and that you had the EB's straight line section positioned between point 2 and point 4. Many TGM instructors have that same mental perception. However, that mental perception doesn't correlate with reality - in a full golf swing the hand arc usually changes direction (from mainly downwards to mainly forwards) between point 2 and point 3, and not between point 3 and point 4. Therefore, the end pulley must be positioned between point 2 and point 3, which usually correlates with the hand arc movement "somewhere" between the first half of the mid-downswing and first half of the late downswing.
Jeff.
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Post by starretj on Feb 24, 2010 20:03:23 GMT -5
Jeff, good stuff. Thanks for taking the time to analyze and post your thoughts.
Jimmy S.
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Post by danadahlquist on Feb 27, 2010 3:35:25 GMT -5
Greg, I have just found this MOG swing. He looks like Mike McNary in that previously-mentioned swing video. www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9-8xeS6yj8&NR=1He has a rightwards-centered backswing swing action. He rotates his pelvis relatively horizontally and he uses the Hogan "left hip clearing" action, and he doesn't allow the outer border of his left pelvis to move outside his left foot in the late downswing/followthrough. He has a non-reverse C finish, and he stands erect over a straight left leg in his finish. He, like Mike McNary (in that particular swing video), has the type of traditional rightwards-centered backswing swing style action that I was promoting in my review paper on the S&T swing - as a biomechanically natural swing alternative to the S&T swing. Jeff. Yes great swings. Both are stock faders of the ball. To hit it high aim left put the ball back and shift the path to the right with the face more open to the path for a CF. Otherwise you got no chance with the driver. Its rightwards so he won't hit over draws. Thats the pattern
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Post by danadahlquist on Feb 27, 2010 22:21:48 GMT -5
Greg, I have just found this MOG swing. He looks like Mike McNary in that previously-mentioned swing video. www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9-8xeS6yj8&NR=1He has a rightwards-centered backswing swing action. He rotates his pelvis relatively horizontally and he uses the Hogan "left hip clearing" action, and he doesn't allow the outer border of his left pelvis to move outside his left foot in the late downswing/followthrough. He has a non-reverse C finish, and he stands erect over a straight left leg in his finish. He, like Mike McNary (in that particular swing video), has the type of traditional rightwards-centered backswing swing style action that I was promoting in my review paper on the S&T swing - as a biomechanically natural swing alternative to the S&T swing. Jeff. He does this because its a fade pattern. if he wants to hit it higher and with longer clubs his lines have to go more left and the ball farther back and shift into a CF fade.
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Post by riduffer on Feb 28, 2010 1:31:41 GMT -5
I have never found a down the line view of his swing if anyone has seen one.
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