Jeffy is up in arms for nothing....almost.

[playa]

That one week on an island with no internet went by too fast! Now we have to face quackery besides more taxes for me!

Just glanced over THE 2 websites and of interest is M's thread on Hogan's address vs back swing "move" to the right, which apparently gave Jeffy a boner yet again.

What Jeffy missed, evidently, is why M started that thread in the first place. In fact, Jeffy has a hand in it.

A recent thread on Jeffy's site, which Jeffy linked to this site inside one of my threads, provided the incentive for M to start the thread.

A Jeffy/Kelvin student (?Rich) is under the guidance of a fellow instructor and in the video one thing they worked on, apparently successfully, was avoiding the slide toward the right side, both hips and head, during the back swing. This slide back and then, inevitably, slide forth motion, is very detrimental to many players, particularly those in the learning stage of mastering a good, solid hip move. I think Rich is on the right track and for Rich that tightening move is highly recommended. Like being fiscally responsible.

So apparently M got hold of this and to counter what the other camp is doing, M dug out this Hogan pictorial. This is typical of how M argues for the sake of argument just to up you one, even if it potentially misleads and confuses his followers. There is really no big social loss if some lambs jump the cliff in exchange for providing content to his site.

The problem of copying moves by a freaking genius is that the copiers will invariably come up short because of one thing: they are not geniuses to start with. It is like second guessing Einstein. Most folks are not born to juggle 5 plates in the air no matter what.

For the record, I have no problem if someone who is very proficient with technicals decides to "slide" a little, on the condition that the quality of the hip turn is not adversely affected. For the rest of the crowd, sorry, that is too much of a luxury. This " slide a little" varies daily and is a perfect setup for inconsistency.

Forget about Hogan for a moment. Just rotate "still".

[jeffy]

Really? Apparently neither you nor Manzella are familiar with how Kelvin and Lucas teach the hip turn in the backswing. Hogan is one of the models and he loads his right side during the first move back, just as Kel and Luke teach. That move is what Manzella illustrated in the OP and the identical illustration is included in Kelvin's article "How To Turn Your Hips Part 3: The Backswing".

Manzella OP:



www.brianmanzella.com/golfing-discussions/17944-hogan-move-address-page-3-pics.html

Kelvin article:



www.aroundhawaii.com/lifestyle/health_and_fitness/2011-07-how-to-turn-your-hips-part-3-the-backswing.html

What Rich failed to do in his "before" swing is to allow his right hip to fully internally rotate, which will shift the hips towards the target as the backswing ends, something that's easy to see in Hogan's swing:



That is exactly what Rich and Lucas worked on, see around 1:40 in the Youtube video:




Trying to rotate centered or "still" isn't going to work worth a damn if the right hip doesn't fully rotate internally.

[playa]

I forgot to mention earlier that beside M, Jeffy is another one who often argues for the sake of an argument and I am confident that many concur with that point.

Listen Jeffy, the reason, scratch that, THE REASON that Rich could not effectively internally rotate his right femur is because of his bad habit of so called loading to the right side. He and many others have mistakenly thought that meant simply loading the weight more toward the right side along with a little slide. Sure Rich had component of right int rotation, but not enough, therefore not good enough. Once slide happens, quality rotation is compromised, in either direction, in any direction. What Lucas did was to educate Rich about what he did and then helped him isolate this singular right femur internal rotation which was made possible once Rich learnt to properly LOAD by rotation without sliding, thus "centered", thus "still". This is a very important point possibly clear to you, but clearly you are not a good teacher.

M missed this point by pointing out something else which is exceedingly misleading and confusing to folks with this problem. Apparently you did too. Your showing of Hogan completing his right int rotation to the extreme by a genius --ending the turn actually more left!--although factual, is hardly helpful.

Jeffy you really need to learn to make sense of what Kelvin is teaching and wisely apply to you or anyone else for that matter. Make that your New Year resolution please. The reason you have not improved much, at least to your satisfaction, is because even when given the proper information by Kelvin you do not know how to use them with high level of intelligence. You have successfully overwhelmed yourself by focusing on the 10th decimal!

[jeffy]

Jan 3, 2013 19:01:11 GMT -5 playa said:

I forgot to mention earlier that beside M, Jeffy is another one who often argues for the sake of an argument and I am confident that many concur with that point.

Listen Jeffy, the reason, scratch that, THE REASON that Rich could not effectively internally rotate his right femur is because of his bad habit of so called loading to the right side. He and many others have mistakenly thought that meant simply loading the weight more toward the right side along with a little slide. Sure Rich had component of right int rotation, but not enough, therefore not good enough. Once slide happens, quality rotation is compromised, in either direction, in any direction. What Lucas did was to educate Rich about what he did and then helped him isolate this singular right femur internal rotation which was made possible once Rich learnt to properly LOAD by rotation without sliding, thus "centered", thus "still". This is a very important point possibly clear to you, but clearly you are not a good teacher.

M missed this point by pointing out something else which is exceedingly misleading and confusing to folks with this problem. Apparently you did too. Your showing of Hogan completing his right int rotation to the extreme by a genius --ending the turn actually more left!--although factual, is hardly helpful.

Stop showing off what you have learnt from Kelvin and use common sense more often Jeffy. Make that your New Year resolution please. The reason you have not improved much, at least to your satisfaction, is because even when given the proper information by Kelvin you do not know how to use them with high level of intelligence. Sorry.

I disagree, Dave, on just about every point. Sorry.

[playa]

You see, there you go again, just arguing without making any valid point. If to you I am Dave then call me Dave! Give me a last name though.

Learning comes through stages. Centered rotation without slide in any direction initially is the short cut for people to understand how it feels like to isolate right femur internal rotation. Forget about Hogan. All will never come close.