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Post by cwdlaw223 on Aug 3, 2013 19:45:16 GMT -5
(And anatomically, pronation/supination is technically an elbow movement.) No, it's not. It's forearm rotation and got nothing to do with elbow or wrist. Of course wrist turns also when forearm rotates, but it's not a word to use for wrist movement. Shaft flattening is real mark of left forearm proaction, shaft steepening is clear mark of left forearm supination. That's why I can't understand that Kelvin's early supination part. Maybe he still means early bowing or we see definition of early differently, but as far left forearm is parallel to the target line, supination will throw the club head outside of the hands and steepens the shaft Tapio - Nothing to to with the elbow? That's incorrect. The human elbow is the summation of 3 articulations. The first 2 are the ones traditionally thought of as constituting the elbow: the humeroulnar articulation (the synovial hinge joint with articulation between the trochlea of the humeral condyle and the trochlear notch of the ulna) and the humeroradial articulation (the articulation between the capitulum of the humeral condyle and the concavity on the superior aspect of the head of the radius). The third is a pivot-type synovial joint with articulation between the head of the radius and the radial notch of the ulna.[1] These 3 articulations, forming 2 different aspects, allow flexion and extension of the elbow, as well as supination and pronation of the forearm and wrist at the elbow. The joint allows our muscles to supinate or pronate the bones.
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Post by cwdlaw223 on Aug 3, 2013 19:52:48 GMT -5
Tapio- Don't you want to look at how much the face angle varies relative to the clubhead path? That takes clubhead speed and the radius of the arc out of the equation. If I hear one more time that a driver has a higher ROC than an 8-iron, I'll scream. Start screaming! By increasing speed there are increased loads on the shaft that is eventually transmitted to the head which wants to close to line up with the shaft. BTW - How exactly are you and your camp determining ROC? One phantom?
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Post by jeffy on Aug 3, 2013 20:27:02 GMT -5
Tapio- Don't you want to look at how much the face angle varies relative to the clubhead path? That takes clubhead speed and the radius of the arc out of the equation. If I hear one more time that a driver has a higher ROC than an 8-iron, I'll scream. Start screaming! By increasing speed there are increased loads on the shaft that is eventually transmitted to the head which wants to close to line up with the shaft. So? How exactly is your camp determining ROC? They aren't. I talked to Sasho Mackenzie yesterday and he told me no one has done it with two Phantoms. And don't tell me about ENSO. Those numbers are useless because their frame capture rate is just 2000fps. Impact is 1/2000th of a second. Foresight gets a bit closer at 6000fps, but they don't calculate closure rate. You really need a Phantom, two actually. Mackenzie thinks 10000fps is ok, Mike Duffey thinks maybe something higher. We have bought a second one, subject to "passing a physical". BTW, if you haven't heard, the HMT Foresight camera-based system is the current industry standard in launch monitors. Mackenzie told me that too.
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Post by jeffy on Aug 3, 2013 20:30:35 GMT -5
No, it's not. It's forearm rotation and got nothing to do with elbow or wrist. Of course wrist turns also when forearm rotates, but it's not a word to use for wrist movement. Shaft flattening is real mark of left forearm proaction, shaft steepening is clear mark of left forearm supination. That's why I can't understand that Kelvin's early supination part. Maybe he still means early bowing or we see definition of early differently, but as far left forearm is parallel to the target line, supination will throw the club head outside of the hands and steepens the shaft Tapio - Nothing to to with the elbow? That's incorrect. The human elbow is the summation of 3 articulations. The first 2 are the ones traditionally thought of as constituting the elbow: the humeroulnar articulation (the synovial hinge joint with articulation between the trochlea of the humeral condyle and the trochlear notch of the ulna) and the humeroradial articulation (the articulation between the capitulum of the humeral condyle and the concavity on the superior aspect of the head of the radius). The third is a pivot-type synovial joint with articulation between the head of the radius and the radial notch of the ulna.[1] These 3 articulations, forming 2 different aspects, allow flexion and extension of the elbow, as well as supination and pronation of the forearm and wrist at the elbow. The joint allows our muscles to supinate or pronate the bones.\ So? It is still a movement of the forearm. You just say anything without the slightest idea if it makes an iota of sense.
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Post by cwdlaw223 on Aug 3, 2013 20:43:07 GMT -5
Jeffy -
You must forget what you posted and here is your quote:
"Don't you want to look at how much the face angle varies relative to the clubhead path? That takes clubhead speed and the radius of the arc out of the equation. If I hear one more time that a driver has a higher ROC than an 8-iron, I'll scream."
Apparently you are someone who believes that the "clubhead speed" is taken out of the equation for ROC because immediately after you referenced taking the clubhead speed out of the equation you talked about how you want to scream. Do you still want to state that clubhead speed doesn't play into ROC? Or are you going to backtrack?
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Post by cwdlaw223 on Aug 3, 2013 20:45:56 GMT -5
Tapio - Nothing to to with the elbow? That's incorrect. The human elbow is the summation of 3 articulations. The first 2 are the ones traditionally thought of as constituting the elbow: the humeroulnar articulation (the synovial hinge joint with articulation between the trochlea of the humeral condyle and the trochlear notch of the ulna) and the humeroradial articulation (the articulation between the capitulum of the humeral condyle and the concavity on the superior aspect of the head of the radius). The third is a pivot-type synovial joint with articulation between the head of the radius and the radial notch of the ulna.[1] These 3 articulations, forming 2 different aspects, allow flexion and extension of the elbow, as well as supination and pronation of the forearm and wrist at the elbow. The joint allows our muscles to supinate or pronate the bones.\ So? It is still a movement of the forearm. You just say anything without the slightest idea if it makes an iota of sense. Please. I'm not the one claiming the elbow has nothing to do with supination or pronation. Tapio made that absolute statement which is incorrect and apparently you believe him. On a different note, please tell us what is a "low rate" of trail wrist flexion in degrees per second? Or is fast and slow just a look.
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Post by jeffy on Aug 3, 2013 20:50:09 GMT -5
\ So? It is still a movement of the forearm. You just say anything without the slightest idea if it makes an iota of sense. Please. I'm not the one claiming the elbow has nothing to do with supination or pronation. Tapio made that absolute statement which is incorrect and apparently you believe him. It doesn't have anything to "do" with it. It is just a joint that sits there. How can you look at yourself in the mirror? You say anything no matter how bone-stupid. Just a look, obviously.
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Post by jeffy on Aug 3, 2013 20:51:15 GMT -5
Jeffy - You must forget what you posted and here is your quote: "Don't you want to look at how much the face angle varies relative to the clubhead path? That takes clubhead speed and the radius of the arc out of the equation. If I hear one more time that a driver has a higher ROC than an 8-iron, I'll scream." Apparently you are someone who believes that the "clubhead speed" is taken out of the equation for ROC because immediately after you referenced taking the clubhead speed out of the equation you talked about how you want to scream. Do you still want to state that clubhead speed doesn't play into ROC? Or are you going to backtrack? How is it possible that you are so dense? I said something quite different.
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Post by cwdlaw223 on Aug 3, 2013 20:52:15 GMT -5
Why else would you scream? Ignorance or poor use of the English language. Regardless, if you believe it affects ROC, great. If not, go ask Sasho and he'll set you straight.
Please tell us what is a "low rate" of trail wrist flexion? There must be a number or are you still fascinated with what looks fast or slow in 2D.
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Post by jeffy on Aug 3, 2013 20:55:45 GMT -5
Why else would you scream? Ignorance or poor use of the English language. Regardless, if you believe it affects ROC, great. If not, go ask Sasho and he'll set you straight. When did you last talk to Sasho? We talked about ROC yesterday and he is very interested in looking at it the way I think makes sense. You just don't understand it. No surprise. Please tell us how someone with your limited mental capacity made it through law school? One of the seven wonders of the world.
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Post by cwdlaw223 on Aug 3, 2013 21:08:20 GMT -5
So you don't really know what is a "low rate" of trail wrist flexion, just a look. Why don't you just admit it instead of not providing and answer. This is just like dodging what is really driving or holding in a drive/holder. At least a fan on the Facebook site finally admitted it is the wrists (and you know that's wrong and nothing is driving or holding with the wrists). I spoke with Sasho today.
Richie -
Jeffy is at it again with the personal attacks. If you aren't going to ban him or suspend him for a period of time (I believe you put him on probation once, could be wrong), can I at least fight back?
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Post by jeffy on Aug 3, 2013 21:44:13 GMT -5
Clay, you are a laughing stock. Don't you know that? Get a clue.
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Post by jeffy on Aug 3, 2013 21:51:31 GMT -5
By the way, how the hell would you "fight back"? That would require something you don't have: a brain.
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Post by cwdlaw223 on Aug 3, 2013 22:27:26 GMT -5
And you still don't want to admit the drive/hold was classified by the wrists because of a look of driving and holding by the wrists and nothing of the sort happens. There's more to the classification than the wrists, but you want to avoid that error. Just like the non-existent final findings of the much hyped research a thon and the continuous acceleration of the pelvis concepts? In over your head. Don't forget the no rate low trail wrist Flexion rates, only a look. So much hubris and so little game. I think you're down to two or three followers and with a couple more major blunders they'll leave. That's what happen when you don't adapt to new technology. You get left in the dust! Save up for another phantom!
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Post by rj on Aug 3, 2013 23:38:11 GMT -5
The irony of it all! Sasho M. is now on Jeffy's speed dial.... just like B.M.! Well it makes sense to ask the best, but it's so ironic!
Wonder if all those things Jeffy said about Manzella running to his scientist's all the time now apply to Jeffy?
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