Post by Richie3Jack on Dec 27, 2013 16:30:41 GMT -5
If there is one thing that can be said about Greg Norman from fans to haters it was that the Shark certainly made it interesting on the golf course. I was not a fan of The Shark. I am not sure what it was, but I think mainly it had to do with him not being able to get the job done. Growing up in NY, New Yorker’s love winners and have no time for losers. Even Jets fans have serious questions about the love of their team
I think what got me about Norman as well is he would just do some incredibly stupid things. Most will remember the collapse in the Masters against Faldo. Yeah, that was stupid because he tried to shoot 59 that day and was not on his ‘A Game.’ But I remember 1985 when he had the chance to win the PGA but insisted on using an ulta-high spin Tour Edition golf ball. Norman didn’t need any help with getting his ball to hold greens.
In fact, he hit one of the most incredible shots I had ever seen. He was hitting driver off the deck on a par-5 and it landed on the green, took one big bounce to the back of the green and stopped on a dime. I still don’t know how that was possible, even with persimmon woods.
Yet, there was Norman insisting on using the ball for whatever reason. It came off as very ego-driven. Wanting to not only win, but look cool by hitting these shots that would back up. Well, they did that and Norman spun key shots right off the green and it only cost him a major.
That was Norman’s swing though. It was very high performance. Norman was noted for being a great driver of the ball. I have often heard him referred to as ‘the greatest driver of all time.’ But, he never made my list of statistical data of the ‘great driving years’ on Tour since 1980 in my essay The Extinction of Great Driving. Jack did, twice. At ages 40 and 42. When he was playing and practicing less and less due to golf course design, equipment ownership and raising teenage boys (Jack would fly back to Columbus in the fall every Friday to watch his sons play football).
Still, Norman came close in a few years. I think, in my mind, Norman was the guy that when he really tattooed one, he could hit shots that nobody could imagine. And I think that led to a lot of overhyping because when he missed, he missed badly, like we saw in the ’86 and ’96 Masters.
This swing is Norman’s older swing under Butch Harmon. His younger swing was much longer with a narrower stance. What’s most interesting about his swing is his grip. It’s not interlocking or overlapping or 10-finger or even reverse overlap. It’s just the Greg Norman grip as illustrated:
I would think one would have to have tiny hands to be able to use that grip from my own experience trying to do it. I have big hands and when I would try it the right hand in particular would get into an extremely weak position.
We also see a right foot that is about 10* flared. But a left foot that is about 30* flared. This may cause some sequencing issues for some golfers because the hips may have trouble rotating on the backswing and then everything can be thrown off from there.
When we look at his backswing, he was fully engorged in the Butch Harmon method with the very wide backswing. Butch also teaches a wide hand path on the downswing. One thinks that would lead to casting, but it really doesn’t if the startdown and sequencing in the downswing are on point. The golfer will actually generate a lot of lag. I tend to think that lag is great and all, but it gets really dangerous with the driver between the changes it can make to the dynamic loft, face angle and attack angle. To me, I just feel that with the driver you want lag with a wider hand path. That’s what I think separates the amount of lag that Hogan and Mac get and why they can murder the driver and hit it well versus the other golfers that get a lot lag, but achieve it thru a narrower hand path.
P3.2 is interesting because he is so wide and has yet to cock the wrists. When the wrists don’t cock at this point it will flatten out the shaft plane which we can see from the DTL angle. The main problem I feel most golfers would have trying to replicate this swing is when you have this little wrist cock and are trying to go so wide, between the lack of wrist-cock and the hyper-extension of the left arm, it can make for a very wide swing radius and the wrist motion is not quite in sync with the arm swing and body pivot. I think the key for Norman and his success is that he had a fairly steady head and centered pivot. Most golfers attempting this would move off the ball quite a bit. I also think it helped him tremendously that he did not have a ‘flat spine’ at address like Harmon usually teaches. This would have likely caused a reverse hip slide at p4 and it would get ugly.
However, we do see some issues here as his clubface was closed. I could be wrong, but I don’t remember the young Greg Norman swing with a closed clubface. One can play with a closed clubface. I play with a closed clubface all of the time. But, I feel that it can cause those big misses. If the face closes a little more, then you’re likely missing left. And if you make compensations to prevent it from closing more, it may cause you to open the face. And then there are possible low point issues.
This swing looks a bit more high-draw action. Particularly as he gets down to near impact. His shoulders and hips are only slightly open. Then when we see the club exit in the follow thru, it looks more CF and something that would produce an inside-to-out swing path. We see some incredible, Hogan-esque extension at p8.5 and in to the finish that would likely mean a very high shot when you factor that and his club head speed.
I would liken his game to a bit like Kyle Stanley’s game today. Norman was a far better putter and seemed to have figured out how he wanted to swing and how he wanted to play the game than Stanley does now. But when he was on I could see him hitting surreal golf shots. But when he was off or when the pressure was on, he was often let down by some of the compensations he made.
When I look at this swing, I think the wide hand path on the downswing is something golfers could learn with and that incredible extension into the follow thru. I also still love his footwork.
3JACK
I think what got me about Norman as well is he would just do some incredibly stupid things. Most will remember the collapse in the Masters against Faldo. Yeah, that was stupid because he tried to shoot 59 that day and was not on his ‘A Game.’ But I remember 1985 when he had the chance to win the PGA but insisted on using an ulta-high spin Tour Edition golf ball. Norman didn’t need any help with getting his ball to hold greens.
In fact, he hit one of the most incredible shots I had ever seen. He was hitting driver off the deck on a par-5 and it landed on the green, took one big bounce to the back of the green and stopped on a dime. I still don’t know how that was possible, even with persimmon woods.
Yet, there was Norman insisting on using the ball for whatever reason. It came off as very ego-driven. Wanting to not only win, but look cool by hitting these shots that would back up. Well, they did that and Norman spun key shots right off the green and it only cost him a major.
That was Norman’s swing though. It was very high performance. Norman was noted for being a great driver of the ball. I have often heard him referred to as ‘the greatest driver of all time.’ But, he never made my list of statistical data of the ‘great driving years’ on Tour since 1980 in my essay The Extinction of Great Driving. Jack did, twice. At ages 40 and 42. When he was playing and practicing less and less due to golf course design, equipment ownership and raising teenage boys (Jack would fly back to Columbus in the fall every Friday to watch his sons play football).
Still, Norman came close in a few years. I think, in my mind, Norman was the guy that when he really tattooed one, he could hit shots that nobody could imagine. And I think that led to a lot of overhyping because when he missed, he missed badly, like we saw in the ’86 and ’96 Masters.
This swing is Norman’s older swing under Butch Harmon. His younger swing was much longer with a narrower stance. What’s most interesting about his swing is his grip. It’s not interlocking or overlapping or 10-finger or even reverse overlap. It’s just the Greg Norman grip as illustrated:
I would think one would have to have tiny hands to be able to use that grip from my own experience trying to do it. I have big hands and when I would try it the right hand in particular would get into an extremely weak position.
We also see a right foot that is about 10* flared. But a left foot that is about 30* flared. This may cause some sequencing issues for some golfers because the hips may have trouble rotating on the backswing and then everything can be thrown off from there.
When we look at his backswing, he was fully engorged in the Butch Harmon method with the very wide backswing. Butch also teaches a wide hand path on the downswing. One thinks that would lead to casting, but it really doesn’t if the startdown and sequencing in the downswing are on point. The golfer will actually generate a lot of lag. I tend to think that lag is great and all, but it gets really dangerous with the driver between the changes it can make to the dynamic loft, face angle and attack angle. To me, I just feel that with the driver you want lag with a wider hand path. That’s what I think separates the amount of lag that Hogan and Mac get and why they can murder the driver and hit it well versus the other golfers that get a lot lag, but achieve it thru a narrower hand path.
P3.2 is interesting because he is so wide and has yet to cock the wrists. When the wrists don’t cock at this point it will flatten out the shaft plane which we can see from the DTL angle. The main problem I feel most golfers would have trying to replicate this swing is when you have this little wrist cock and are trying to go so wide, between the lack of wrist-cock and the hyper-extension of the left arm, it can make for a very wide swing radius and the wrist motion is not quite in sync with the arm swing and body pivot. I think the key for Norman and his success is that he had a fairly steady head and centered pivot. Most golfers attempting this would move off the ball quite a bit. I also think it helped him tremendously that he did not have a ‘flat spine’ at address like Harmon usually teaches. This would have likely caused a reverse hip slide at p4 and it would get ugly.
However, we do see some issues here as his clubface was closed. I could be wrong, but I don’t remember the young Greg Norman swing with a closed clubface. One can play with a closed clubface. I play with a closed clubface all of the time. But, I feel that it can cause those big misses. If the face closes a little more, then you’re likely missing left. And if you make compensations to prevent it from closing more, it may cause you to open the face. And then there are possible low point issues.
This swing looks a bit more high-draw action. Particularly as he gets down to near impact. His shoulders and hips are only slightly open. Then when we see the club exit in the follow thru, it looks more CF and something that would produce an inside-to-out swing path. We see some incredible, Hogan-esque extension at p8.5 and in to the finish that would likely mean a very high shot when you factor that and his club head speed.
I would liken his game to a bit like Kyle Stanley’s game today. Norman was a far better putter and seemed to have figured out how he wanted to swing and how he wanted to play the game than Stanley does now. But when he was on I could see him hitting surreal golf shots. But when he was off or when the pressure was on, he was often let down by some of the compensations he made.
When I look at this swing, I think the wide hand path on the downswing is something golfers could learn with and that incredible extension into the follow thru. I also still love his footwork.
3JACK
