struggling golfer

[crimsongt]

hey

I thought I would post a video of my swing, I have been struggling for a while as my handicap has gone up in the last 2 years and distance has diminished especially with my irons. I see several things I don't like but would like opinions on what I might work on first.

My typical shot is a fade with my misses being pulls, thin shots, or huge slices that start right and get worse quick, also the occasional shank.

thanks
Joe

[imperfectgolfer]

You are coming OTT - partly because your kinetic sequence is out-of-sequence. You are rotating your upper torso before your lower torso. Your pelvis is reacting, instead of initiating the downswing action.

It is possible to avoid an OTT move when using a reactive pelvic action. However, that requires a specific compensatory move - where you drive the right shoulder more downplane, so that shoulder "move" can shift the pelvis left-laterally and create secondary axis tilt, which is needed to allow your clubshaft to come more from the inside.

An OTT move will produce a pull if you release well and square the clubface to the path (which is out-to-in through impact). By contrast, an OTT move with an incomplete release swivel action will produce a pull-slice ball flight, with the degree of slicing depending on the degree that the clubface is open to the path. A shank will happen if you fail to initiate any release swivel action and if you pull the hosel (heel) towards the ball along an out-to-in path.

Jeff.

[gmbtempe]

Yea I don't see any right arm abduction, its a little like KJ Choi with the hands but as Jeff points out your pivot is out of sequence.

I wonder if working on getting into a "pitch" elbow might be a good move to try out. Some of the components of the swing look really good from startup to top. You wrist looks like Tiger at the top.

[iteachgolf]

I think if you eliminate the small lift at the top of the swing and then move weight left you'll be fine. Swing isn't OTT you simply begin rolling PA#3 way too early ( roll your left arm too much too soon). Keeping arms down a little more and getting more axis tilt earlier will keep right arm bent longer and help shallow out your swing without releasing PA#2 early (wrist cock) and the previously mentioned PA3 issues.. May also feel like your left arm doesn't rotate on the downswing.

[crimsongt]

thanks for the comments everbody I will go to the range in a few days and try a few ideas.
thanks
joe

[Richie3Jack]

Let's go over your misses and what happens at impact with them

pulls

Clubface is left of the target. Path is pointing left of the target, about at the same angle the face is pointing.

thin shots

You are hitting the ball on the bottom of the clubhead.

Slices that start out right

Face is open, path is left of where the clubface is pointing.

shanks

path problem, most likely 'tipping out' at P6 of the golf swing.


These swings on the video didn't look OTT to me. But with your misses, I can see that you probably do come OTT on those to a degree

Three things I'd probably work on.

1. Footwork and Lower Body Action

Particularly on the downswing. Take a look at this pic:



Notice how the knees have more flex in the downswing than they do at address. This indicates golfers who start the downswing with the feet and lower body first and then the upper body follows. This makes it hard to come over the top and allows you to pivot better to generate more velocity.

Take a look at Knudson's footwork



Norman's footwork at the :23 second mark.




2. Getting into pitch elbow.

I think this will help you with your path and your low point.


3. Left Side connection drills.

#4 PP is a little too loose for me, particularly in the backswing.








3jack

[jonnygrouville]

Apr 12, 2010 11:51:33 GMT -5 iteachgolf said:

I think if you eliminate the small lift at the top of the swing and then move weight left you'll be fine. Swing isn't OTT you simply begin rolling PA#3 way too early ( roll your left arm too much too soon). Keeping arms down a little more and getting more axis tilt earlier will keep right arm bent longer and help shallow out your swing without releasing PA#2 early (wrist cock) and the previously mentioned PA3 issues.. May also feel like your left arm doesn't rotate on the downswing.

That is interesting. What causes this 'small lift'? I had always thought this was from an inside handpath early on, leading a lot of people to lift from here to complete the backswing. There is then a kind of triangular handpath, having to go over-the-top-of-the-backswing (if that makes sense) to try and get back on plane.

At the first parallel, the club is inside the toeline. Would you advise someone like this to try and move that more out towards the target line? The club should complete the backswing more naturally from there and make it easier to find a decent consistent plane on the way down.

Or does it even matter? From what I have seen, there is no problem with an inside handpath per things like Manzella's soft-draw pattern.

[iteachgolf]

I wouldn't change his takeaway, at least not first. I'd work on keeping pressure points 4 and 5 throughout the swing and getting some axis tilt coming down, and touch on PA #3

[pavaveda]

Pressure Point 5?

Also, how is he not OTT? He makes a reverse loop (in to out) from BS to DS. Do you mean that he's not OTT of the turned shoulder plane? It's kind of Haney-ish I know, but wouldn't it help him to almost reverse the loop?

I'm asking b/c I don't understand, not as a challenge, and I've never heard of PP 5.

[iteachgolf]

Apr 16, 2010 20:20:42 GMT -5 pavaveda said:

Pressure Point 5?

Also, how is he not OTT? He makes a reverse loop (in to out) from BS to DS. Do you mean that he's not OTT of the turned shoulder plane? It's kind of Haney-ish I know, but wouldn't it help him to almost reverse the loop?

I'm asking b/c I don't understand, not as a challenge, and I've never heard of PP 5.

Snead, Hogan, Mac, and many others swing down above their backswing planes. HArdly what I would call OTT but I guess it depends on your definition. PP5 is the right armpit.

Not what I consider OTT at all

Attachments:

[pavaveda]

OK. Thanks for clarifying. I see what you're saying now, and after another look at the video and your screenshot I see what you're saying.

When did this PP5 thing get coined? Is that fairly new? Can't it be confusing since you could still have PP5 secure, but have your elbow in different positions? Or is a punch elbow considered a "looser fifth PP" than a pitch elbow?

[Richie3Jack]

PP5....I'm guessing....is probably coined thru darome. If you do the CP release, you will feel a pressure point in your right arm pit. I think you can use that pressure point in other parts of the swing if you want, but I'm guessing thru learning the CP release, MOG noticed that right armpit pressure point and then coined it 'PP5'. Again, just my guess.







3JACK

[iteachgolf]

Apr 16, 2010 21:21:09 GMT -5 pavaveda said:

OK. Thanks for clarifying. I see what you're saying now, and after another look at the video and your screenshot I see what you're saying.

When did this PP5 thing get coined? Is that fairly new? Can't it be confusing since you could still have PP5 secure, but have your elbow in different positions? Or is a punch elbow considered a "looser fifth PP" than a pitch elbow?

PP5 was coined by Mac in late 80's maybe early 90s. There are actually 3 pressure points in the right arm. Armpit, biceps, and elbowish. The armpit pressure point is maintained in both CP and CF swings in darome and S&T. The others are released at various points in the swing. All pressure points can be maintained while using different amounts of pressure, for instance pressure in PP4 isn't the same throughout the swing.

[crimsongt]

thanks again guys, after a long week at work I finally got to the range, Iteach I found focusing on PA#3 as you described to be an immediate difference. I will pratice a while before posting a video again.

thanks again eveyone