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Post by Ringer on Apr 22, 2010 23:03:53 GMT -5
Here ya go everyone. www.swingacademy.com/videoPlayer.aspx?id=4609My thoughts: I could stand a little taller and get my right arm under the shaft. I tend to get a little long in the arm swing and getting the right elbow a little closer to my left elbow should help shorten my swing a bit. My pivot is good, but my arms are late and that tends to get my hands out WAY away from my body by impact.
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Post by Ringer on Apr 23, 2010 14:46:00 GMT -5
Apparently my swing leaves everyone speechless.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Apr 23, 2010 16:00:11 GMT -5
I think that your swing is superb.
I can see no advantage to you adopting a more erect posture.
Your right forearm is appropriately angled relative to the ground - because your left arm is angled slightly steeper than normal (steeper than the shoulder turn angle at the end-backswing position).
Jeff.
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Post by gmbtempe on Apr 23, 2010 16:46:28 GMT -5
You play off a pretty steep downswing plane, do you hit it pretty high? Is your miss a over fade?
Love your impact and how your hips clear and shoulder works on the downswing.
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Post by Ringer on Apr 23, 2010 21:52:00 GMT -5
You play off a pretty steep downswing plane, do you hit it pretty high? Is your miss a over fade? Love your impact and how your hips clear and shoulder works on the downswing. Generally yes, and short with irons. My driver averages around 290 but barely get my 3 iron 220. My miss is a fade. Funny thing is if I'm amped up for a shot, my arms catch up to my body and I can dead eye just about any shot. But when I'm just out swinging loose I miss right constantly. Thank you for the compliments about my shoulder and hips. I've had my flexible look at impact compared to Freddie many times, but I don't have his talent to square the face. I would imagine that getting more upright lies would probably fix my rights without having to change my swing... but I'm not comfortable with the shifting planes.
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Post by Ringer on Apr 23, 2010 21:54:57 GMT -5
I think that your swing is superb. I can see no advantage to you adopting a more erect posture. Your right forearm is appropriately angled relative to the ground - because your left arm is angled slightly steeper than normal (steeper than the shoulder turn angle at the end-backswing position). Jeff. Thank you for the compliment Jeff. I'm honestly not 100% certain one what I can do to fix this dramatic plane shift. Taller is a common suggestion I've heard.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Apr 23, 2010 22:33:39 GMT -5
Ringer, I don't know what you mean you state that you have a "dramatic plane shift". I think that you have very little plane shift in the downswing - you shift from being just above the TSP (at the end-backswing position) to being just below the TSP (at impact). I think that if you want to be on a shallower plane at impact (eg. elbow plane) then you could consider experimenting with a different backswing action. When your left arm is parallel to the ground in the backswing, the butt end of your club points well inside the ball-target line (which means that it is off-plane per Homer Kelley's "on-plane" definition). To get your club to be on-plane at that same backswing position, you would need to bend your right elbow sooner, and also ensure that you externally rotated your right humerus more. That would allow your right palm to face more skywards at that time point in your mid-backswing. That, in turn, would allow you to pronate your left palm more, so that it is parallel to a shallower backswing plane. That combined right arm/left arm action would probably allow you to get your left arm across your shoulder turn angle at the end-backswing position - rather than being steeper than your shoulder turn angle. You may, or may not, also have to make slight adjustments in your spinal bend angle as well. Here is a link to John Erickson's swing. www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sjNqBnAkpENote that his hands are deeper (further away from the ball-target line) when his left arm is parallel to the ground in his backswing, and note that the butt end of the club points at the ball-target line. Note that he gets his left arm below his shoulder turn angle at the end-backswing position. There may be another factor that affects your backswing action. I noted that your clubshaft is not parallel to the ground at the end-takeaway position. It is angled slightly upwards. I am not sure what is causing that problem, and I wonder whether you have a left hand grip issue (eg. lower palm grip +/- short left thumb) that causes your left wrist to upcock too soon. Jeff.
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Post by Ringer on Apr 25, 2010 21:49:12 GMT -5
Ringer, I don't know what you mean you state that you have a "dramatic plane shift". I think that you have very little plane shift in the downswing - you shift from being just above the TSP (at the end-backswing position) to being just below the TSP (at impact). I think that if you want to be on a shallower plane at impact (eg. elbow plane) then you could consider experimenting with a different backswing action. When your left arm is parallel to the ground in the backswing, the butt end of your club points well inside the ball-target line (which means that it is off-plane per Homer Kelley's "on-plane" definition). To get your club to be on-plane at that same backswing position, you would need to bend your right elbow sooner, and also ensure that you externally rotated your right humerus more. That would allow your right palm to face more skywards at that time point in your mid-backswing. That, in turn, would allow you to pronate your left palm more, so that it is parallel to a shallower backswing plane. That combined right arm/left arm action would probably allow you to get your left arm across your shoulder turn angle at the end-backswing position - rather than being steeper than your shoulder turn angle. You may, or may not, also have to make slight adjustments in your spinal bend angle as well. Here is a link to John Erickson's swing. www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sjNqBnAkpENote that his hands are deeper (further away from the ball-target line) when his left arm is parallel to the ground in his backswing, and note that the butt end of the club points at the ball-target line. Note that he gets his left arm below his shoulder turn angle at the end-backswing position. There may be another factor that affects your backswing action. I noted that your clubshaft is not parallel to the ground at the end-takeaway position. It is angled slightly upwards. I am not sure what is causing that problem, and I wonder whether you have a left hand grip issue (eg. lower palm grip +/- short left thumb) that causes your left wrist to upcock too soon. Jeff. Thank you for the wonderful analysis Jeff. I appreciate the time you spent to type it up and look so deeply into my swing. I do have a dramatic plane shift from my backs-wing to my forward swing. It's relatively flat going back until my hands are just above my hips and then I lift up to the turned shoulder plane. I'm not happy with how high my hands get at impact nor how closed the club-face has to be approaching impact. I'm wondering what keeping my elbows together a bit more would do. I know it would shorten the back-swing up a bit and rely more heavily on my pivot. I think it would also get rid of what I call "slack" between my arms and upper body. I haven't worked on that too much but it might be something I strive for a bit more this season.
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Post by Ringer on May 2, 2010 15:05:09 GMT -5
Some relatively new threads have brought to light something about my swing. Someone on another board is insisting that I don't bump my hips enough and that I'm turning my hips too early. Frankly, I whole heartedly disagree. I don't think the problem is in my lower body, I think it's in my upper body. Take this picture for example. The lower body is starting to open up a bit, but I don't see much difference between it and Adam Scott at the same point in his swing. But I do see a HUGE difference between upper body positions here. My shoulders are well open where as Adam Scott, Tiger, etc are closed or VERY closed.
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Post by gmbtempe on May 2, 2010 15:28:24 GMT -5
I would expect Anthony Kim who plays a draw (big push hook really) would have closed shoulders at the same position as you as his baseline is going to be several more degrees to your right. I also wonder if his shifting to the elbow plane has anything to do with it? Here is Jack who has some of the same swing traits as your motion, I don't see a lot of difference with your photo. Attachments:
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Post by Richie3Jack on May 2, 2010 18:05:14 GMT -5
Please don't bump the hips. That's a quick way to really ruin your swing and get way too much secondary axis tilt. I think you probably square the face up better than you give yourself credit for if your misses are 1-way misses.
3JACK
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Post by gmbtempe on May 3, 2010 10:49:06 GMT -5
Please don't bump the hips. That's a quick way to really ruin your swing and get way too much secondary axis tilt. I think you probably square the face up better than you give yourself credit for if your misses are 1-way misses. 3JACK truer words were never spoken, man did I have to learn the hard way, and I am still not fixed. God if only someone would have fixed my club face when I was 18!
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Post by Ringer on May 4, 2010 11:42:44 GMT -5
I would expect Anthony Kim who plays a draw (big push hook really) would have closed shoulders at the same position as you as his baseline is going to be several more degrees to your right. I also wonder if his shifting to the elbow plane has anything to do with it? Here is Jack who has some of the same swing traits as your motion, I don't see a lot of difference with your photo. Great picture, and like Jack I too have a fade as my default. Mine is much less controllable though.
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Post by Ringer on May 4, 2010 11:45:40 GMT -5
Please don't bump the hips. That's a quick way to really ruin your swing and get way too much secondary axis tilt. I think you probably square the face up better than you give yourself credit for if your misses are 1-way misses. 3JACK As Brian would say, I have early tumble. My clubface closes early in my forward swing. This is why my release is a bit more unique. What is wrong with axis tilt? Mine tends to get a bit upright early in the forward swing and I reattain it with my hips. I think this is the classical case of being "stuck". Arms are trailing the body too far. Way way way back when my first instructor tried to fix this by having me hit into a "firm left side" while pulling down more like a karate chop with the left arm. I DEFINITELY started to hit hooks doing that move.
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Post by jonnygrouville on May 5, 2010 0:08:40 GMT -5
There is not much I would disagree with in any of the comments so far. There are a lot of very good (and enviable) things going on in your swing. I have been reserving my comments to see if anyone else would mention the backswing and follow-up on Jeff's comments. I have been trying to 'tidy up' my arm-swing over the last six months or so and have some comments I can share. A lot of teachers would not change anything. Your right elbow is very high, but your elbows are pretty level. Very David Toms-esque to my mind and I don't think someone like Brian Manzella would change anything here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=pP9gFdEaQNYYou definitely set the club quite steep and 'between the elbows' halfway back, and that is not necessarily a bad thing. However, I agree with Jeff that if you traced a straighter plane line on the way back, you might find it easier to find the plane you are after through the ball more regularly. I also think that although there are plenty of great golfers that have played from here, without the talent and the time to practice, we could be making life easier for ourselves. I was hitting a lot of high rights and hanging back hooks from a similar sort of place. Again, as Jeff says, you could look at rotating your arms more in the backswing, maybe even trying to feel your left elbow below the right at the top and getting your arm more in line with your shoulder turn angle. I have also been trying to keep some width with this move, to keep my right elbow more 'infront' of my body than being pushed out the back. We're only talking about small things, but they might make a difference for the better!
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