Name Things You Don't Like About Golf Instruction

[Richie3Jack]

One of my big pet peeves in golf instruction is when you go and get a lesson and the instructor does not want to use a camcorder if you would like one to be used.

I am a huge fan of the camcorder. Yes, I know it can lead to some innaccuracies in instruction if you are not paying attention. This YouTube instruction video explains some of it(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIlum97McaQ)

One of the things I studied in college is *how* people learn things and visual learning was usually the most effective way for the case studies to learn. So being averse to using video really never makes any sense to me.

And for me, I want to know what exactly it looks like that you are trying to get me to do and then when I get home and start practicing, I can use my own camcorder and see if I am doing what your instruction calls for.

What are your pet peeves with golf instruction?





3JACK

[joec]

i think, the majority of teachers are method teachers. they are not familiar with the compatability of the components. i do not think the tgm schools teach compatability through the masters class. that is my peeve.

[Richie3Jack]

Another thing I don't like about golf instruction is that it mostly focuses on the backswing and pays little attention on the downswing. I really believe that this in part gets golfers in trouble. Bobby Clampett was a perfect example. While Ben Doyle's pattern of choice isn't for me, those who can master it can produce excellent ballstriking results. Clampett did it, but when he started to struggle a bit, he then started listening to coaches that wanted him to change his backswing.

It's too bad because people usually forget what type of prospect he was on Tour. He was thought of as like a poor man's Ben Hogan, but a far better putter. I caddied for a friend at a course once for a tournament and found out that Clampett held the course record of a 62 there and I just couldn't imagine how anybody could reasonably shoot under 65 there.

Anyway, you go out to the range and inevitably you see golfers working on the backswing almost all of the time. I just think it's a case of golf instruction trying to make the swing look pretty, but not have any substance behind it.

That is probably the biggest mistake I made with my golf swing in my 'career', I focused way too much on the backswing and making the swing look pretty instead of focusing on the downswing. Of course, it's easier to do these days since we pretty much know what causes the ball flight down pat.

A golfer that works on their downswing long enough builds a solid foundation. Almost like many of the Victorian style homes that were built a long, long time ago that may get a little run down looking on the outside, but are still solidly built on the inside and have a solid foundation that has stood the test of time and whatever weather phenomenons that came its way.

Don't get me wrong, I think working on the backswing can be essential to your improvement but I just think that if we were to look at the driving range and see most of the golfers working on their downswing, we would see much lower scores.




3JACK

[iacas]

Jan 29, 2010 12:46:59 GMT -5 Richie3Jack said:

Anyway, you go out to the range and inevitably you see golfers working on the backswing almost all of the time. I just think it's a case of golf instruction trying to make the swing look pretty, but not have any substance behind it.

You've undoubtedly got more knowledge than I do on the golf swing, but I've worked on the backswing for a few reasons. The biggest one is probably that the backswing sets up the rest of the swing, and if you get out of position in the backswing you're compensating the rest of the time. Better to get it right early on than to get it wrong early on.

The second thing is that if you're trying to hit positions it's much easier to do it in the backswing, which happens at a much slower pace. That may not be a good way to learn - position learning - but a lot of golfers and teachers seem to want to learn that way.

Just some thoughts.

[joec]

richie, you keep talking about working on the downswing. what do you work on?

[Richie3Jack]

iacas - you hit the nail on something I also really don't like in golf instruction 'position learning' versus 'alignment learning.' Most teachers have zero clue what I mean.

I look for teachers who look at impact first and then try to see what the golfer's impact alignment looks like and then work backwards. Sometimes that calls for making adjustments in the backswing, but many times it doesn't. I don't think anybody would teach a golfer a Trevino type backswing or a Lietzke type backswing, but their downswings are superb because that's what they focused on a lot in their career.



3JACK

[pavaveda]

In another thread...

Feb 6, 2010 11:53:01 GMT -5 Richie3Jack said:

P1 = Address
P2 = Shaft parallel to the ground on backswing
P3 = Left Arm parallel to the ground on backswing
P4 = Top of swing
P5 = Left Arm parallel to the ground on downswing
P6 = Shaft parallel to the ground on downswing.
P7 = Impact
P8 = Shaft parallel to the groun on follow thru.
P9 = Finish


In Lag Erickson's ABS terms:

P1 = Shaft parallel to ground on backswing
P2 = Top of Swing
P3 = Shaft parallel to ground on downswing
P4 = Shaft parallel to ground on follow tru
P5V = Shaft Directly Vertical to Ground in follow thru (almost at the finish)

Noooo! Please say it isn't so!

You want to know what's wrong with Golf Instruction? It's that no one is consistent with their definitions. Or they feel like they can make up their own definition to an already well-defined term. What do we get out of that? Confusion! Opaqueness. Mystery. And what follows those things? Charlatanism. Incomplete concepts. (Over)-Simplification of complex systems. Regression instead of progress.

[gmbtempe]

I really like the darome P definitions, it makes sense and covers what I like to look at in a sequence. When I can talk with people and say P6 it makes it very easy for both of us to know where that is in the swing.