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Post by gmbtempe on Oct 8, 2010 16:39:41 GMT -5
Another lesson last week. Instructor likes the backswing plane (my tendency is to let my arms get too high at the top), but still critical of my hanging back with my lower body on the downswing. From a face on view, he wants the left hip to slide laterally enought to be over the outside edge of the left foot at impact. If he draws a vertical line up from the outside of the left foot, the left hip should be touching that line at impact. I struggle to get the feel down. The instructor wants me to practice hitting driver 100-150 yards so I have time to shift my hips. Has anybody else worked on this swing issue? Here is a video of my "after" swing taken at the end of the lesson. www.youtube.com/watch?v=62Rhf7ZJXlgYes, its a drill I used to use when I spun out to much, though my teacher at the time never said anything about the why.
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carland
'88 Apex Redlines
Posts: 152
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Post by carland on Dec 4, 2010 6:58:03 GMT -5
Still struggle with not moving enough laterally left at start of downswing, although it's easier for me to do with an iron than the driver. When it does feel like I've made a good lateral move left, it seems harder to square the clubface at impact. My impact position doesn't look anything like a pro, with the hip left and head behind the ball. Any suggestions?
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carland
'88 Apex Redlines
Posts: 152
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Post by carland on Jan 13, 2011 15:00:43 GMT -5
My latest video lesson swing. I've been using the "step-in" drill to get the feel of moving my body left to initiate the downswing. I move my front foot back next to my back foot in the backswing and stop. Then I start the downswing by stepping forward with my front foot. The drill has me moving my lower body better, but I still hang back with my upper body - especially with the driver. So I'll keep working on it. I'm going to try the two-ball drill that gmbtempe recommended earlier today.
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Post by gmbtempe on Jan 13, 2011 15:04:57 GMT -5
I look at your swing and think thats solid...........what is your normal ball flight? What happens when you miss?
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carland
'88 Apex Redlines
Posts: 152
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Post by carland on Jan 14, 2011 7:53:19 GMT -5
I block or push-fade my driver to the right when things are going bad. I fear going right. Using the ball flight laws, I must leave the face of the driver open at impact. I hit the irons and hybrids better than the tee ball, usually straight or with a draw. It's the opposite of the driver. My guess is that my path with an iron is similar to the driver but I sqaure the face of an iron more.
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Post by gmbtempe on Jan 14, 2011 10:38:15 GMT -5
I cant see the face very good due to the length..........on the face on though it may be slightly open at the top..........what does your teacher say about the face, does the golftech measure that at all?
You have a draw type swing IMO so that result screams not getting the face closed.
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carland
'88 Apex Redlines
Posts: 152
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Post by carland on Jan 14, 2011 15:22:26 GMT -5
what does your teacher say about the face, does the golftech measure that at all? You have a draw type swing IMO so that result screams not getting the face closed. I'm not so sure the GolfTec data is accurate. It says that my clubhead speed is 96 mph but the ball speed is only 85 mph. It also says the clubface is 17* open. That seems extreme - even for one of my bad shots. The instructor wants me to practice using a more inside path on the downswing while rotating my forearms counterclockwise to square the face. When I work on it (in a golf dome since I'm in Chicago), I close the face more but hit some pretty severe hooks.
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Post by tightdraw on Jan 14, 2011 21:45:49 GMT -5
For what it's worth: with the driver especially you have a major upper body move off the ball and behind it. in both the driver and the iron at the top your wrist/arm angle is way narrower than the preferred 90*. also on your iron swing especially the club is inside at P2 and then there is a raising of your arms to the top of the backswing. You do hold that lag nicely into P5 but at P6 the clubface of the iron is VERY open to the arc. and if you want to know what is happening to you after that all you need to do is look immediately after impact where your shaft is quickly in line with your right arm at a point in the swing when it should be inline with the left. that suggests something of a big forearm rotation and flip of the wrists to square the clubface up. There is so much very sound in your swing though. I would encourage you to stay more centered over the ball and to have teh clubface square to the arc at P2.
J
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Post by gmbtempe on Jan 14, 2011 22:38:03 GMT -5
No 17 degrees does not sound to crazy. Your swing looks inside out to me, lets say its 7-8 degrees inside out, in order to push fade it your club needs to be open to it so if you are slicing it yea I could see it open. I definitely see a little chaser roll of the arms save because of the open face.
Your instructors advice seems odd to me, so if its 17 degrees open the fix is to roll the arms more? When you get a stronger grip of course you hit hooks because of the inside out path. It would seem to me if you could blend the two, say a slight stronger grip and maybe a path less inside to out. Your path is inside out IMO do to its length, pretty hard to get anywhere close to a square path when the hands are that far behind you unless you do like a hacker and make a big OTT move, which you are not.
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carland
'88 Apex Redlines
Posts: 152
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Post by carland on Jan 15, 2011 13:16:27 GMT -5
tightdraw & gmbtempe:
Thanks for your comments: moving off the ball, too much wrist hinge and hands too far behind me. All of them makes sense when I look at the video and think about my ball flight. None of them addresses the issues the instructor is working on, which is making me question what I've been working on.
I've never been told that I move too much off the ball on the backswing. I was told to hinge my wrists to keep the clubhead on the shaft plane from the DTL view up to P2. My hands used to work to the outside while the clubhead moved too far to the inside. The wrist hinge move does work, but it makes sense why it would lead to too much wrist angle making it tougher to square the clubface at impact. I also work on getting my hands deep on the backswing so that my left arm is parallel with the shaft plane at the top. My left arm used to be too vertical at P4.
I hit some balls this morning trying to keep the angle of my left wrist at address throughout the backswing to reduce the wrist hinge. It seemed easier to square up the club face (especially with the drive) with less wrist hinge, but it's hard to get a good handle on ball flight in a golf dome. I'm still thinking about the other two suggestions. Thanks for taking the time.
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Post by tightdraw on Jan 15, 2011 15:41:47 GMT -5
you are welcome. a couple of additional thoughts. The key to a good position at P2 is beginning to fold the right elbow: think elbow not wrists. The wrist cocking is more gradual and by the time you reach P3 == left arm parallel -- it should be 90*. then in going from P3-P4 just think about completing the shoulder movement. you will be surprised that you hit the positions and you didn't overcock your wrist and more importantly you did not over fold your right elbow. both very important. Now as to getting deep or inside on the way back, this isn't discussed enough but the angle in really should depend on the club. if you use the base line/target line think of the angle being about 30* with a 7 iron or so and much more with a driver and rougly calibrated between the two. It is one of the things I am less enthusiastic about in S&T teaching. The implication is that you are aiming to get equally inside on all clubs but that isn't right because the club lies are different as are their lengths. you want to be able to trace the target line on the backswing and that will produce different arcs for different clubs. it's a small point but can be misleading. hope this is helpful.
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carland
'88 Apex Redlines
Posts: 152
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Post by carland on Jan 15, 2011 17:06:09 GMT -5
My instructor uses Anthony Kim's backswing as a model for hand depth on the backswing. By about P2, Kim's left arm is against his torso at the same inclination as his torso. Then, at the top, his left arm covers his right shoulder even with an iron. Here's a a clip of his swing:
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Post by tightdraw on Jan 15, 2011 22:25:55 GMT -5
excellent swing, but even so his arms are in front of his body at the top of the swing; and the two things that you would want to incorporate into your swing is that his wrist cock is 90* and his right elbow definitely does not over-fold
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Post by gmbtempe on Jan 15, 2011 22:28:20 GMT -5
capture Attachments:
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carland
'88 Apex Redlines
Posts: 152
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Post by carland on Mar 12, 2011 10:58:12 GMT -5
I was in New Orleans for work in late February and took a lesson from Brian Manzella. I hit a lot of blocks and push cuts with the driver. He pointed out my open clubface and OTT move in the downswing and had me working on:
Set-Up: Stand a little taller and a little closer to the ball with softer forearms. Right foot and right shoulder a little back from the target line.
Backswing: Turn the left forearm counterclockwise (not just the wrist) so the top or back of the left forearm faces away from the target at the top of the backswing. At the top, the left thumb should feel like it still points at the target line as it does at address.
Downswing: Shift back left feeling like the hips turn even more away from the target than they did in the backswing and like my chest does not rotate back to the target. He wants me to swish my arms through from this position and finish with the back of the left forearm facing the target with the wedding ring up. High hands, low clubhead.
Here's my attempt this morning at making the changes.
A friend took this video from his iPhone with an app called V1 Golf.
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