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Post by pavaveda on Dec 2, 2010 13:29:13 GMT -5
Ringer stated-: "The reason I post is as Iteach says, I enjoy it. I don't even mind being challenged on what I say. But when it's NEVER ending, always in the negative, and exhausting to read .... it takes any joy out of doing it." Rohlio stated in response-: "What a great post." I am amazed that forum members, who post "something" about golf swing mechanics/biomechanics, lose their joy because a single forum member constantly challenges the legitimacy of some of their opinions. If they didn't read my criticism, then presumably they would still enjoy posting. Nothing prevents forum members from ignoring my posts by simply not reading them. As Johnny has stated, I believe in endless challenges because I want to understand the "truth" regarding golf swing mechanics/biomechanics, and the "truth" becomes more apparent when an opinion has a low falsifiability quotient. I constantly challenge the legitimacy of my own personal opinions, and I do not alter my endlessly-inquiring approach when exposed to other forum members' opinions. If they do not like their opinions challenged, then they can simply avoid reading my posts. Jeff. Tell you what Jeff, next time you want to ask me questions I get to charge you my normal rate of $80 per hr. Then you can ask all the questions you want because you're paying for it. Be sure to keep your credit card handy. I'm tired of giving away free information only to spend ridiculous amounts of my unpaid time backing it up. IMO, If that's how you feel, then don't post/reply here. I think you have your own website where you can post whatever you want, right? You could even charge people to read it. Maybe Jeff would pay!
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Post by Ringer on Dec 2, 2010 13:47:43 GMT -5
IMO, If that's how you feel, then don't post/reply here. I think you have your own website where you can post whatever you want, right? You could even charge people to read it. Maybe Jeff would pay! That's not the point. If I see something worth posting on, then I'll make my say. I'm happy to answer any honest questions to help explain further what I mean if it isn't initially clear. But when it's relentless and constantly from the same person, it becomes no longer about learning my stance it's about hidden agenda's. Notice Jeff too has a website where he provides his "expertise" on golf. Sounds less like your average reader of a forum wanting to learn and more like the guy who wants to just prove he's the only one that's right.
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Post by gmbtempe on Dec 2, 2010 14:19:26 GMT -5
Ringer stated-: "The reason I post is as Iteach says, I enjoy it. I don't even mind being challenged on what I say. But when it's NEVER ending, always in the negative, and exhausting to read .... it takes any joy out of doing it." Rohlio stated in response-: "What a great post." I am amazed that forum members, who post "something" about golf swing mechanics/biomechanics, lose their joy because a single forum member constantly challenges the legitimacy of some of their opinions. If they didn't read my criticism, then presumably they would still enjoy posting. Nothing prevents forum members from ignoring my posts by simply not reading them. As Johnny has stated, I believe in endless challenges because I want to understand the "truth" regarding golf swing mechanics/biomechanics, and the "truth" becomes more apparent when an opinion has a low falsifiability quotient. I constantly challenge the legitimacy of my own personal opinions, and I do not alter my endlessly-inquiring approach when exposed to other forum members' opinions. If they do not like their opinions challenged, then they can simply avoid reading my posts. Jeff. Tell you what Jeff, next time you want to ask me questions I get to charge you my normal rate of $80 per hr. Then you can ask all the questions you want because you're paying for it. Be sure to keep your credit card handy. I'm tired of giving away free information only to spend ridiculous amounts of my unpaid time backing it up. Does this go for everyone? I have never heard a statement like this on the forum. Makes me feel guilty for asking questions.
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Post by rohlio on Dec 2, 2010 14:35:26 GMT -5
Tell you what Jeff, next time you want to ask me questions I get to charge you my normal rate of $80 per hr. Then you can ask all the questions you want because you're paying for it. Be sure to keep your credit card handy. I'm tired of giving away free information only to spend ridiculous amounts of my unpaid time backing it up. Does this go for everyone? I have never heard a statement like this on the forum. Makes me feel guilty for asking questions. I am certain that ringer was pointing out that being endlessly questioned in your job is different than being endlessly questioned in something you do in your spare time for fun. The point several are making is that it takes the fun out of the activity they do that they find rewarding (viz. posting for free in an internet forum to help people probono), and makes it a lot more like work ( which they should be getting paid for). Jeff finds it impossible to believe that his actions cause other forum posters to feel this way, even though they have explicitly stated it. However since I have never once seen Jeff say in any of his posts the words "I hadn't thought of it like that, maybe I am wrong". I doubt that this will change. Those expressing this feeling are simply expressing that something done as part of their leisure activity can in fact be made less fun by somebody acting in the way that Jeff does. Of course they are wrong to feel this way
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Post by gmbtempe on Dec 2, 2010 14:43:10 GMT -5
I think its just the way he is............I think he writing an entire paper (which I would imagine is at least a 100 hours of work) based (at least the discussion started here) on the argument we have made on this forum that you can push and pull in a golf swing. I think Jeff thinks of it different then wrong per say, rather than now he has more information and his opinion has changed.
I just have my own mental "ignore".
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Post by iacas on Dec 2, 2010 15:05:40 GMT -5
Jeff finds it impossible to believe that his actions cause other forum posters to feel this way, even though they have explicitly stated it. Those expressing this feeling are simply expressing that something done as part of their leisure activity can in fact be made less fun by somebody acting in the way that Jeff does. Of course they are wrong to feel this way That pretty much sums it up.
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Post by pavaveda on Dec 2, 2010 15:28:40 GMT -5
The only reason people "feel" that way is because they aren't used to people criticizing their opinions. They've been conditioned to feel like they have made an error when someone questions their beliefs, instead of treating it as an opportunity to improve their theory. It's when people stop questioning your beliefs that you should worried. Bringing it back into golf-instruction, I don't see anyone talking about or questioning the theories of Butch Harmon or Hank Haney. Is this because their theories are sound? Doubtful! More likely, it's because they are no longer relevant.
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Post by iteachgolf on Dec 2, 2010 15:30:38 GMT -5
I called out Tiger Woods and it ended up being a 100 page thread on golfwrx, most of which slammed me even though in the end it turned out I knew a thing or two. I'm not afraid of criticism. What Jeff does is quite different. He changes his theory to fit the argument and contradicts himself constantly while refusing to ever admit he might be wrong. Very apperent in latest S&T thread.
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Post by rohlio on Dec 2, 2010 15:41:12 GMT -5
The only reason people "feel" that way is because they aren't used to people criticizing their opinions. gee you are right the "ONLY" reason people feel that way is because none of them are used to being criticized. Why didn't I think of that I defended a dissertation in Philosophy and my opinions/thought/beliefs and work were criticized rigourously throughout my entire coursework and during my defense. Yet not once did my professors dismiss me and my fellow students claiming "I know more than all of you combined" (although that may have been the truth). Heck I even had a professor thank me for helping him work out a problem he had been working on for quite a while. I am certain no one else here is used to being criticized though. They all just live in happy fun land were we all get to ride the short bus and everyone gets a ribbon for participating.
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Post by Richie3Jack on Dec 2, 2010 15:47:18 GMT -5
I locked this thread. Please check out the announcement in regards to Jeff that I stickied up in the Golf Swing folder.
Thank you.
3JACK
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