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Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 22, 2010 17:17:46 GMT -5
Greg, B/P described the COG weight transfer in their S&T book. They stated that one would have to assertively move the pelvis left-laterally during the downswing, so that the outer border of the left pelvis and the left knee would end up a few inches outside the left ankle by the end of the followthrough. By contrast, VJ Trolio states in his book that he doesn't have to shift his pelvis left-laterally in the downswing. He simply pulls his left buttocks back towards the tush line - as recommended by Ben Hogan. Note that the outer border of his left pelvis doesn't shift over more to the left during his downswing action. Jeff.
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Post by gmbtempe on Feb 22, 2010 17:48:42 GMT -5
Greg, B/P described the COG weight transfer in their S&T book. They stated that one would have to assertively move the pelvis left-laterally during the downwing, so that the outer border of the left pelvis and the left knee would end up a few inches outside the left ankle by the end of the followthrough. Jeff. Honestly I think this is the more interesting discussion of the swing and one of the reasons why it helps many poor amateurs improve quickly as it gets the COG's closer to what would be considered "model" in a good golf swing. I say this with only a cursory knowledge of COG transfer in swings. Its part of the swing I want to learn more about.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 22, 2010 18:19:26 GMT -5
Greg,
I think of COG transfer in a golf swing differently than both B/P and VJ Trolio.
I think of keeping the COG near the "center" throughout both the backswing and downswing. I think of the pivot action as being a rotary motion around the COG and I think that a golfer shouldn't actively attempt to move the COG away from the center during either the backswing or downswing.
Jeff.
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Post by danadahlquist on Feb 27, 2010 3:03:15 GMT -5
That's why Stewart lost his card, started hitting pulls 15 yards long over greens and short cuts in right front bunkers. So how would I hit a driver off the deck with nine degree's of loft? Further more get it to launch high and draw?
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Post by danadahlquist on Feb 27, 2010 3:31:08 GMT -5
No, I would like to see it. I started reading the thread and got a headache. I thought Mike Finney basically echoes my thoughts on it...P&B don't need deceptive pics like that to show good players with their spine in an alignment at P4 like they teach. A few months ago, Dana Dahlquist showed pics of Tiger and Phil hitting a driver on his Facebook page and then says to the effect that Tour players hit down on the driver otherwise you will go into the woods. And then he uses the then #1 (Tiger) and #2 (Phil) players in the world as an example of two golfers hitting down on the driver. I like Dana a lot. I think he's a great guy, great teacher and really good player and most of the time I agree with him. That being said, I thought it was a poor statement and a poor example because Tiger and Phil hit it all over the place with the driver. And then you here S&T guys talking about having a 'flat hit' with a driver. Just very confusing, and really not necessary. 3JACK Not only that but David Orr teaches to have a 55/45 weight setup yet in the video B and P say its hould be 40/60 weight setup (both numbers are weight on right foot with a driver). Orr teaches several patterns as do I. Each pattern has seperate situations and set-ups. That being said CP Driver would have the most cut bias with leftward startlines(McNary example). Its a very sexy looking action. I teach it to 10% of my students because you got to be very flexible to get your elbow range to change to this degree and to achive the right #3 roll. S&T is in the middle so to speak (however draw bia's) and you have the most smash factor. CF is the most flexible and can get to an extreame model such as Kenny Perry. Point of the matter. I hit down on my driver at 2 degrees, when I go CP its 2-3 with the ball way more forward and my COG at center forward. I don't do it very well, even though I get more lag and a snap release. CF goes farther but the face can get hairy. My point is Andy & Mike have the inline model down very good. I started teaching it because its flexible to teach to any age group. Getting 10's to 4'"hncp" is super easy with the pattern. All S&T wants is for on the finish to get the hips up forward and level. Not that big a deal. Its way better than a bunch of my friends on tour that backout of it and sling it. As for the top end of the back swing if your having issues getting the left arm up and back (bent left arm look) just extend the spine up some. Stay center. Don't go off in left field thinking you leaning left of left. If you did that you would look like serigo or pat perez. They do it more than what we would like to see. Here are some pic's of some student's. Notice they are not so crazy or outlandish once you see them. The last photo of Brad is when he does not tuck his hips ( or as the hat say's not using your legs)
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 27, 2010 12:39:07 GMT -5
Dana
I am glad that I am not your student with the light blue shirt - with the outer border of his left pelvis well outside his left foot. I can easily imagine how much he is subjecting his lumbar spine to left-lateral-directed latriflexion forces in his downswing action.
Jeff.
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Post by gmbtempe on Feb 27, 2010 12:43:35 GMT -5
Yea I don't like that position as well even though I suffer from over slide of the hips. I would like to see the top photo at impact.
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Post by danadahlquist on Feb 27, 2010 12:56:33 GMT -5
Very good thats why he is next to th eother golfer whom is stacked that was a before picture. Good one. However he was a top level college player and a very good striker before stack. He started this year because a few of his pro buddies got better.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 27, 2010 12:59:51 GMT -5
Greg, You wrote-: "Yea I don't like that position as well even though I suffer from over slide of the hips. I would like to see the top photo at impact." I would personally like to see the following photo at impact - the outer border of Hogan's left pelvis is well within the vertical boundary of his left inner foot. Jeff.
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Post by danadahlquist on Feb 27, 2010 13:07:40 GMT -5
The point is that Hogan was Inline to CP with a slight shifted baseline. So if he did go into a S&T pattern hip slide in this picture it would had been high push draw.
However if you over slide on the downswing and shift the path further to the right, it may be good to feel like that picture. I just would not tell the masses to turn around and behind a fixed left leg.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 28, 2010 1:20:11 GMT -5
Dana,
You wrote-: "The point is that Hogan was Inline to CP with a slight shifted baseline."
I find this statement to be incomprehensible. Can you please rephrase the answer?
Jeff.
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Post by danadahlquist on Feb 28, 2010 23:18:44 GMT -5
He shifted the baseline------exited across the ball so the face was maybe a degree more open than the face. Maybe..Clubs were doctored too.. so that takes some note into it..
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Post by gmbtempe on Feb 28, 2010 23:23:08 GMT -5
Think you meant face open 1 degree to path (for the fade)?
Yes, as Richie has pointed out he messed with his clubs to make it as hard to hook as possible.
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Post by danadahlquist on Feb 28, 2010 23:25:14 GMT -5
yes sorry , you bet
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Post by danadahlquist on Feb 28, 2010 23:26:27 GMT -5
BTW- VJ did a bang up job in his book.
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