kovner
Beat up Radials
Posts: 12
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Post by kovner on Dec 21, 2011 15:36:40 GMT -5
A little background: I only started golfing in May '11. I took a few crappy lessons, read a couple crappy books and then found PerfectGolfSwingReview. After that I tried to build my swing based on the ideas found there, and based on some of the ideas found on clemshaw's videos. I didn't play a round for the first couple months of practicing, but after that first round, I stopped patiently building my swing and was more interested in playing rounds (All >100). So, now that the weather has cooled and the rain has started here in Seattle, I have decided to commit to patiently build my swing, one move at a time.
I plan on posting videos and thoughts to log my progress, and I welcome any comments (including 'this is stupid. get out of our forum'), but I'm certainly not posting here to beg for help. If nobody responds, I plan on continuing to keep this thread as a journal, because I think it would be an interesting log of progress.
Anyways, on to my swing: I know that there will be lots and lots of problems as I am just a beginner, but to start with I'd say that the biggest problem from before was that I started the downswing with my arms, leading to a cast and a dramatic flipping motion. In my goal to work on only one move at a time, I've spent the past couple of weeks focusing on starting the downswing with a hip-pivot, and a right shoulder downplane movement. I think I've been semi-successful at grooving these key movements, and it seems to me that just improving there has increased my lag and reduced my flip (even without specifically thinking about those things, though the casting and flip are still there).
I notice now, however, that I'm getting too lateral: My left hip gets outside the outer border of my left hip. So right now thats my focus: starting the DS with a hip-pivot, but one that is not so lateral.
Without further ado, here are my swings from a couple days ago. Note: I included a swing with the ball and without, because right now there is a noticeable difference in my swing in those two situations. This is something I'm working on.
Also note: I have read the rules on posting clear swing vids and I hope I am not violating them too egregiously. I shoot my my Nikon D90 at 24FPS. The range I go to is covered (they all are in Seattle), so without direct/overhead sunlight, I have to turn the ISO all the way up to H1.0 and I put the shutter speed as high as it will go without leaving me too dark. This is usually around 1/2000 but not always. Also, those damned dividers between the hitting stations partially block the FO view. I pull the mat back a bit so you can see me between the pole and the divider, but there's not much else I can do.
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Post by golfdad on Dec 21, 2011 21:45:25 GMT -5
Hello Kovner, I think you have a very decent form, regardless of when you started. I tend to agree with your own assessment of your current issues. I don't have the confidence to tell you what to try, but would love to hear what others have to say!
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kovner
Beat up Radials
Posts: 12
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Post by kovner on Dec 22, 2011 11:41:39 GMT -5
get a wedge length( 3/4 inch pvc pipe and put mag lites in both ends (secure with tape). put gloves under arm pits . which ever light that is nearest the ground should point to target line. At what point(s) in the swing do you think I'm off plane?
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Post by gmbtempe on Dec 22, 2011 13:36:44 GMT -5
get a wedge length( 3/4 inch pvc pipe and put mag lites in both ends (secure with tape). put gloves under arm pits . which ever light that is nearest the ground should point to target line. At what point(s) in the swing do you think I'm off plane? P2 stands out
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kovner
Beat up Radials
Posts: 12
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Post by kovner on Dec 22, 2011 15:45:32 GMT -5
At what point(s) in the swing do you think I'm off plane? P2 stands out True, True. Thank you. I agree, the beginning of my backswing is off-plane, but I seem to steepen in the top half of the backswing and get on plane by the end of back swing, and seem to be pretty close during the downswing. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I appreciate any advice, but do you guys think my biggest swing fault is being off-plane in the takeaway? Edit: The PVC pipe with maglites is a good idea, and definitely a drill I can do in my office. When I first started, I took a couple of indoor lessons at Ron Watts. They had a laser that attached to the butt end of the club so you could see if you were on-plane, but of-course that was only when the butt-end was the lower end of the club. I think if I did the PVC pipe thing, I would try to get laser-pointers in each end. I think that would be cheaper than maglites and a bit more precise. What do you think?
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Post by gmbtempe on Dec 22, 2011 15:50:23 GMT -5
True, True. Thank you. I agree, the beginning of my backswing is off-plane, but I seem to steepen in the top half of the backswing and get on plane by the end of back swing, and seem to be pretty close during the downswing. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I appreciate any advice, but do you guys think my biggest swing fault is being off-plane in the takeaway? I agree you reroute fine and it does not look to bad. That swing looks like you should be able to get it around the course. Its tougher to see in those speeds for me.
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kovner
Beat up Radials
Posts: 12
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Post by kovner on Dec 22, 2011 16:00:41 GMT -5
Oh, also I forgot to mention that my most common miss is a push or a push-slice. Someone suggested to me that the reason is that I am not actively adducting my right upper arm into the slot as my torso rotates. "Getting Stuck." That seems to be what is going on in this pic: My right elbow is pretty far from the right hip. As a relative beginner, there are so many faults, and even though I know I can only work on one thing at a time, it is hard to know a good order to correct them in.
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Post by gmbtempe on Dec 22, 2011 16:12:50 GMT -5
You are way late, you look like me two years ago (minus a few pounds ( :
Do you have the next frame?
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kovner
Beat up Radials
Posts: 12
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Post by kovner on Dec 22, 2011 17:26:53 GMT -5
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Post by gmbtempe on Dec 23, 2011 1:12:55 GMT -5
You do lots of things that are real popular in golf swing teaching, one piece takeaway with your hands and the club head getting very much away from you , you have a very quite hip turn, you then start the swing with a very agressive lower body starting the great kinimatic sequence that was so popular. You actually make a huge shoulder turn and a really long swing, but its all kind of for not because the club is so late. I would start like Denny said with some tees under your arms, specifically our right arm, you should feel as soon as you start the backswing that the right arm begins to bend. I think your shoulder turn is way to flat. If you steepen your shoulders on the backswing a little bit with the tees I would imagine the club will be in front of you more and you will not suck it back inside, might be hard to have as long a swing but that would be a good thing. Attachments:
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dhc1
'88 Apex Redlines
Posts: 178
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Post by dhc1 on Dec 23, 2011 10:40:19 GMT -5
While i am not a good golfer whose advice you should rely upon, your swing reminds me of mine, particularly the disconnect between the upper/lower body and having my right elbow far from the right hip.
One thing I am working on is the sequence of the swing. I have always heard to lead with your lower body (bump the hip, squash the can, etc.) so that was a big focus area. For whatever reason, that concept didn't work for me and led me to lose my spine angle, which i think you do as well.
my focus now is to not lead with my lower body: my first move is to point my right elbow at my left knee (without moving my left knee or lower body at all). when it points at my left knee, i pivot as hard as possible.
When i swing without a ball, it looks very good on camera - it's much hard to do with a ball for some reason.
I also feel that this is similar (although I'm not sure he'd agree) to what tightdraw is trying to do with his swing as well.
I also believe that Greg (gmbtempe) is one of the best posters, who has both knowledge and, equally if not more important, tact/discretion in his posts
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kovner
Beat up Radials
Posts: 12
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Post by kovner on Dec 23, 2011 13:47:47 GMT -5
Ha, well, I think that my biggest swing fault only a few weeks ago was that my sequencing was out of whack the other way: I started the downswing with my arms, and had only a small hip movement. In response, I spent the past couple of weeks focusing on starting the downswing with a hip-pivot and having that feeling of 'leaving the arm behind,' IE - increasing pressure at PP#4. I guess in the process, I started to leave the whole power assembly behind, and I need to work on slotting my right elbow. I think it's something that I would be able to ingrain fairly easily as it seems like a natural movement to me. Greg, I understand what you are saying about my right elbow being detached at the end of backswing contributing to being behind in the downswing, but if I can get from that same end of backswing position to a position where I'm slotting my elbow correctly, would that be fine, without tweaking my backswing? I've tried to keep my right elbow pinned during the backswing and it feels awkward to me, and from my readings, there is no inherent biomechanical flaw in having that flying elbow in the backswing.
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Post by gmbtempe on Dec 23, 2011 14:23:31 GMT -5
Ha, well, I think that my biggest swing fault only a few weeks ago was that my sequencing was out of whack the other way: I started the downswing with my arms, and had only a small hip movement. In response, I spent the past couple of weeks focusing on starting the downswing with a hip-pivot and having that feeling of 'leaving the arm behind,' IE - increasing pressure at PP#4. I guess in the process, I started to leave the whole power assembly behind, and I need to work on slotting my right elbow. I think it's something that I would be able to ingrain fairly easily as it seems like a natural movement to me. Greg, I understand what you are saying about my right elbow being detached at the end of backswing contributing to being behind in the downswing, but if I can get from that same end of backswing position to a position where I'm slotting my elbow correctly, would that be fine, without tweaking my backswing? I've tried to keep my right elbow pinned during the backswing and it feels awkward to me, and from my readings, there is no inherent biomechanical flaw in having that flying elbow in the backswing. Sure, the key is going to be you want this look at P6 never mind the circles but this is where your hands should be in relation to your body at this position. Lots of ways to get to this but its a good checkpoint.
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Post by tba on Dec 25, 2011 13:28:53 GMT -5
You need to scrap the takeaway, i.m.o. it's the root cause of everything that happens after. The clubhead is whipped in behind you and your hands. That starts a chain reaction, flat and laid off to start then a lift to the top to correct it, but then that causes a steep downswing and the rest is obviously just a recovery mission coming into impact.
You can slot your elbow all you want, it won't matter, you won't get it to work properly unless you fix the takeaway issue. You'll just be adding another move to try and compensate for a faulty takeaway and b.s. Anyway it's just my opinion, good luck.
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kovner
Beat up Radials
Posts: 12
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Post by kovner on Dec 25, 2011 18:48:39 GMT -5
Stupid holidays getting in the way... I won't be in the same city as my clubs until Jan 2. Then I'll get to work on some of this stuff. Thanks for the help guys.
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