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Post by gmbtempe on Feb 27, 2010 12:33:57 GMT -5
I was wondering the same thing but can't find the article.
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Post by danadahlquist on Feb 27, 2010 12:58:05 GMT -5
Last golf digest with Jack on the cover, sorry dont have it handy. Its in the back of th eissue. Called saving your back..
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Mar 3, 2010 19:44:26 GMT -5
In a new S&T thread at GolfWRX, a forum member started the thread with the following commentary.
"I just watched a couple of YouTube videos in which the S&T method was bashed and criticized. The basis for the criticism was that no great player has ever tilted his torso toward the target at the top of their swing. They went on to say that Mike and Andy prescribe tilting to the left at the top and therefore S&T would be a poor choice as a swing pattern. I could not disagree more. Mike and Andy have NEVER prescribed tilting off vertical to the left at the top. In actuality they teach turning the shoulders in a circle. If one were to be tilted left at the top that would mean the shoulder center has moved left....and the shoulders would be turning in an ELLIPSE. Moving the center to the left is just as bad as moving it to the right. Yes Mike and Andy teach tilting to the left....BUT THAT LEFTWARD TILT BECOMES A SIDE TILT....OTHERWISE KNOWN AS INCLINATION TOWARD THE BALL. That way the shoulder center remains stable and turning in a perfect circle. I would simply ask that people please understand the method perfectly before publicly criticizing the pattern."
In the discussion that followed, a number of golfers stated that they didn't have the flexibility to perform the S&T swing optimally. Greg particularly stated that he had difficulty getting the left shoulder to tilt downwards in the backswing.
The person, who started the thread, stated that a golfer doesn't need to be flexible to perform the S&T swing if one tilts the right pelvis upwards in the backswing. I think that he is wrong because I think that it requires a lot of spinal flexibility to incorporate a 30 degree spinal tilt into the spinal extension move - needed to keep the upper swing center stationary.
A key feature of a S&T swing was described in capital letters in the introductory post - : "Yes Mike and Andy teach tilting to the left....BUT THAT LEFTWARD TILT BECOMES A SIDE TILT....OTHERWISE KNOWN AS INCLINATION TOWARD THE BALL."
I think that it does require a significant degree of spinal and upper torso flexibility to achieve that goal.
Jeff.
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Post by danadahlquist on Mar 4, 2010 0:10:34 GMT -5
most guys whom come to me after reading anything have too much turn and feel as if they turn less. They really feel as if all the need to do is stand up and tilt forward 4 inches. It does not take that much.
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iain
Beat up Radials
Posts: 5
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Post by iain on Mar 4, 2010 18:57:20 GMT -5
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Post by Richie3Jack on Mar 4, 2010 19:29:12 GMT -5
Welcome aboard iain.
Dana - This was something I was pondering today. Do you think that S&T would possibly be better for females over males?
Lots of good female golfers and LPGA players tend to have a very sweepy, throwaway type of action going on and I think S&T helps rid them of that a bit in a simpler fashion. I'm not trying to knock that for males, but I think the male golfer is generally the better athlete and while they could use components of S&T, they may want to choose a pattern that takes full advantage of their athleticims.
Again, not a knock against S&T and I'm sure guys like O'Hair and Wi are really good athletes. But I think if you had to choose between S&T being more helpful to females or males what would you choose?
3JACK
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Post by danadahlquist on Mar 5, 2010 0:23:16 GMT -5
I would say yes for sure. at the very least the impact. The LPGA tour is so filled with terrible action. However they all score very well. It just goes to show at just about any level, scoring is king.
BTW - May be doing a deal with 3D golf with one of my players in November for the sport and athletic summit. Ill keep you posted on this.
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Post by gmbtempe on Mar 8, 2010 12:14:56 GMT -5
Nothing stood out until the last line where it makes it sound like this was his method based on research. He collaborated with Craig Davies, a chiropractor and fitness trainer, in developing this article. |
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Post by iteachgolf on Mar 12, 2010 2:54:00 GMT -5
Posting these to one see what Jeff says about them and two show that you can hit fades as well as the standard push draw and very trajectory.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Mar 12, 2010 10:26:04 GMT -5
iteachgolf
Welcome to this forum.
I am aware that you are a staunch S&T fan - based on what I have read at GolfWRX.
Feel free to provide counterarguments in this forum, where one can freely present contrary opinions without being subjected to "ad hominem" attacks.
I have never stated (or even implied) that a S&T golfer cannot shape the ball flight - draw/fade or high/low.
My primary objection to the S&T swing relates to the biomechanics of the technique - a requirement for an assertive left-lateral pelvic slide action in the downswing to reverse the spinal tilt. I am concerned that it may subject the lumbar spine to excessive latriflexion forces.
When I look at the video you posted, it looks to me like an excellent example of a S&T golfer. However, I would hate to be that golfer - because I am concerned about the effect of that swing style on his lumbar spine over the next 5 decades.
I much prefer Brian Stock's swing. Even though he is being taught by a S&T instructor, he still has a rightwards-centralised backswing action, and not a leftwards-centralised backswing action. Therefore, he doesn't need to perform an assertive left-lateral pelvic slide action to reverse a leftwards-spinal tilt.
Jeff.
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Post by iteachgolf on Mar 12, 2010 11:48:04 GMT -5
Shaping shots was asked by someone else, whole post wasn't directed towards you and sorry for the confusion. Brian is my student and why I was interested in seeing what you had to say, since you like his swing.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Mar 12, 2010 19:23:50 GMT -5
Iteachgolf You are doing a superb job with Brian. I hope that you do not get him to lean more left at the end-backswing position. By the way, what do you think of my criticism of the S&T swing? perfectgolfswingreview.net/stackandtilt.htmJeff. |
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Post by gmbtempe on Mar 12, 2010 20:17:47 GMT -5
iteach,
When I look at your pelvic motion you don't seem to have nearly the lateral move forward that Dana or Nick Clearwater have, am I wrong on that?
Jeff,
I believe the golfer other than Brian in the vid's is Dan's own swing.
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Post by iteachgolf on Mar 13, 2010 0:08:19 GMT -5
iteach, When I look at your pelvic motion you don't seem to have nearly the lateral move forward that Dana or Nick Clearwater have, am I wrong on that? Jeff, I believe the golfer other than Brian in the vid's is Dan's own swing. Amount of hip slide needed is determined by amount of axis tilt wanted and desired ball flight. I don't have as much of a hip slide because I create enough axis tilt without translating backwards and have no problem drawing the ball and have a shallow AOA. I also have more shaft lean as well. It all about how they go together and there are many variations. |
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Post by iteachgolf on Mar 13, 2010 0:11:45 GMT -5
Iteachgolf You are doing a superb job with Brian. I hope that you do not get him to lean more left at the end-backswing position. By the way, what do you think of my criticism of the S&T swing? perfectgolfswingreview.net/stackandtilt.htmJeff. Top of the backswing is perfect and will not be changed from where it is now. We did change his hand path and his arms are lower than they were 6 months ago at the top of the swing, but as it stands now no changes to the backswing will be made. I want the upper COG stable, but it's location depends on golfers preferred ballflight and the other components of his swing. |
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