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Post by slice_oftheday on Mar 1, 2010 17:35:38 GMT -5
Update: New slow motion videos on Page 5 Hello, I'm a long-time lurker of the Richie3Jack Golf Blog, and I'm looking for advice on my swing. Now, I'm not a golfer, I'm a tennis player, but I've been working at trying to understand a bit of TGM by reading Richie's blog, Slicefixer's Texarkana, Lag Erickson/ABS forums, and Lynne Blake forums. I think I'm trying to emulate the Lynne Blake swinger's pattern, but I feel that I don't have that horizontal hinge/end swivel going on. I feel like one of my main problems is not getting to the left pivot point which causes a spin-out. I'm confused about the transition move and how to clear that left side. I don't know how to shallow my plane on the downswing. I've included links of a DTL and Face on view of my swing taken today, as well as some stills. As you can see, the impact still is atrocious, just absolutely grotesque. Any help or insight is appreciated. Thanks a lot, Paul DTL: www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPNHHiG3xgMFace On: www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yiwLn_8VbM
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Post by vjsinger on Mar 1, 2010 19:23:42 GMT -5
I think your clubs are way too upright and long and it would be helpful to see a close up of the grip. Those are my initial thoughts.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Mar 1, 2010 19:35:11 GMT -5
I do not see any of the problems that you infer are present in your swing.
I would be very happy to have your swing (including your impact alignments).
I would particularly love to have your degree of torso flexibility.
Jeff.
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Post by slice_oftheday on Mar 1, 2010 19:44:46 GMT -5
Clubs are standard length, standard lie, I'm 5'11" I don't think I'm executing the right forearm takeaway correctly, so it probably looks like my arms are too straight/stretched. Here's a pic of my grip Thanks, Paul
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Post by slice_oftheday on Mar 1, 2010 20:23:08 GMT -5
I do not see any of the problems that you infer are present in your swing. I would be very happy to have your swing (including your impact alignments). I would particularly love to have your degree of torso flexibility. Jeff. Thanks for the kind words Jeff, Paul
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Post by vjsinger on Mar 1, 2010 20:33:30 GMT -5
OK,so it's not the clubs. The reason I asked to see the grip is to see why at address you have butt of the club so far away from you and I think the answer lies in your grip. I think you need to get your left heel pad more on top of the grip to facilitate an easier hinging of the wrist. Check out the top of the swing, see how there isn't much of wrist cock. I think your problem may start there( the grip). You have learned to try to square up the club by tugging hard with the shoulders early in the downswing to try and get it around the course and that's what you are seeing at impact and I agree with you. Your transition is a little off and you use your upper body too much, but I really think the biggest problem is the grip.
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Post by slice_oftheday on Mar 1, 2010 20:43:52 GMT -5
OK,so it's not the clubs. The reason I asked to see the grip is to see why at address you have butt of the club so far away from you and I think the answer lies in your grip. I think you need to get your left heel pad more on top of the grip to facilitate an easier hinging of the wrist. Check out the top of the swing, see how there isn't much of wrist cock. I think your problem may start there( the grip). You have learned to try to square up the club by tugging hard with the shoulders early in the downswing to try and get it around the course and that's what you are seeing at impact and I agree with you. Your transition is a little off and you use your upper body too much, but I really think the biggest problem is the grip. That makes a lot of sense, thanks for the advice. I'll try and adjust my grip next time I'm out practicing. - Paul
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Post by gmbtempe on Mar 1, 2010 20:55:57 GMT -5
Looking at your swing in V1. I use the P system to describe locations in the swing, you can search that on Richies blog by just typing "p7" into the search as he did a full blog post.
P1 - face on looks like a great setup. I don't know if the camera is tilted but on the DTL it looks like some weight is on you heals? I see you are using the right forearm on plane at address? Looks good.
P2 - club might be a tad of plane but its hard to tell from the dtl view, think the camera should be farther left in line with the feet for the best view. man do you keep your left arm straight. There is very little bending of the right arm. no cocking of the wrists at this point.
P3 - wrists just beginning to cock. pretty amazing how still you can keep your head with that much extension of the arms, most people would be moving off the ball.
p4 - at the top the clubs looks just about perfect, a lot like Adam Scott in that position, clubface is perfectly square.
P5 - As you transition it does not look like you are getting enough weight transfer to the left leg, do you have any guess what your weight distribution is just starting the downswing. At the P5 position you look good for alignments but I think your hands are already getting a little to far behind your body.
P6 - hands a little behind, they should be opposite your right leg. on the DTL your just about perfect
P7 - big flip, think this is mostly pivot related. you need to get more weight onto that left leg an continue to turn the shoulders through the shot. You need to feel that right shoulder moving up and left as soon as impact is made, yours stays down for a long time while the hands make their finish almost independently,
P8 - finish looks funny but thats just a result of your pivot.
I am no pro, just some stuff I see. You have a good swing.
Have you read VJ Trolio's book, you look a perfect candidate for his type of pivot.
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Post by slice_oftheday on Mar 1, 2010 21:18:51 GMT -5
Looking at your swing in V1. I use the P system to describe locations in the swing, you can search that on Richies blog by just typing "p7" into the search as he did a full blog post. P1 - face on looks like a great setup. I don't know if the camera is tilted but on the DTL it looks like some weight is on you heals? I see you are using the right forearm on plane at address? Looks good. P2 - club might be a tad of plane but its hard to tell from the dtl view, think the camera should be farther left in line with the feet for the best view. man do you keep your left arm straight. There is very little bending of the right arm. no cocking of the wrists at this point. P3 - wrists just beginning to cock. pretty amazing how still you can keep your head with that much extension of the arms, most people would be moving off the ball. p4 - at the top the clubs looks just about perfect, a lot like Adam Scott in that position, clubface is perfectly square. P5 - As you transition it does not look like you are getting enough weight transfer to the left leg, do you have any guess what your weight distribution is just starting the downswing. At the P5 position you look good for alignments but I think your hands are already getting a little to far behind your body. P6 - hands a little behind, they should be opposite your right leg. on the DTL your just about perfect P7 - big flip, think this is mostly pivot related. you need to get more weight onto that left leg an continue to turn the shoulders through the shot. You need to feel that right shoulder moving up and left as soon as impact is made, yours stays down for a long time while the hands make their finish almost independently, P8 - finish looks funny but thats just a result of your pivot. I am no pro, just some stuff I see. You have a good swing. Have you read VJ Trolio's book, you look a perfect candidate for his type of pivot. Wow thank you for such an in depth analysis, I'm going to check out Richie's entry "p7." I didn't know much about V.J. Trolio so I did a search function on another website called GolfWRX.com. A member named btk_1 had this to say about the pivot action Trolio advocates: "to add momentum, during the first 12" the club travels back, he wants the golfer to shift an additional 10% of their weight to the right foot (while maintaining the right knee flex (throughout the swing))... and when the hands reach hip height the hips begin to rotate clockwise AND AT THE SAME TIME the pelvis moves laterally toward the target. He wants the hips to have turned 45 degrees and 80% of the golfer's weight to have shifted to the left foot AS the backswing ends... and then the downswing starts with ONLY the hips rotating counter-clockwise (NO lateral motion is required because the golfer has already shifted their center of gravity over to their left pivot axis which runs along the inside of the left leg)." This is very interesting information, and I'll have to check out the book for myself. Do you know if they make a paperback version? All I could find on Amazon was an expensive hardcover version. Thanks again for the insight, - Paul
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Post by gmbtempe on Mar 1, 2010 21:38:13 GMT -5
No just the hardback version.....I think its a great move for very flexible people and I think it fits some of your swing faults.
remember weight transfer happens from behind you, not on the way down. You need to start shifting the Center of Gravities (COG's) as you hands approach finish are you can't get to your left side the way I think you should. Here is a Shawn Clement video touching the subject, in fact all his pivot stuff is pretty good for a swinger profile. Clement has many of the same pivot ideas as trolio...but his stuff is free.
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Post by jonnygrouville on Mar 1, 2010 21:43:46 GMT -5
Your first impact pic looks spot on.
But as gmb explains, it is a bit of flip with some pivot issues. Would anyone else recommend a wider stance for a bit more of a foundation for the pivot?
You're in really good shape by the end of the backswing so I probably wouldn't mess with much there. I always found it tricky to control ball-flight and hit half shots with this sort of 'late-setting' swing, but no biggy if you can live with it (for example, not living anywhere windy).
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Post by vjsinger on Mar 1, 2010 22:27:04 GMT -5
No on the wider stance. The ankles should be slightly outside of the hips, not shoulders @ address. IMO, if you turn your shoulders fast in the DS your going to slice it MUCH worse and lose even more distance.
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Post by gmbtempe on Mar 1, 2010 22:33:04 GMT -5
The shoulders do not move fast the hands and arms move fast, the shoulders need to move in motion and speed that supports them.
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Post by vjsinger on Mar 1, 2010 22:43:41 GMT -5
The shoulders do not move fast the hands and arms move fast, the shoulders need to move in motion and speed that supports them. So, that clears up what you meant on the P7 explanation. What drill do you suggest he do to accomplish this?
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Mar 2, 2010 0:09:55 GMT -5
Greg,
You wrote-: "P5 - As you transition it does not look like you are getting enough weight transfer to the left leg, do you have any guess what your weight distribution is just starting the downswing."
How much weight should a golfer have on the left leg at P5 and how do you determine from a swing video what's the likely amount of weight distribution on the left leg at P5?
Jeff.
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