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Post by Richie3Jack on Mar 18, 2010 9:02:45 GMT -5
slice ---- Yes, I do actively try to get into pitch elbow. When I get to the top of the swing I pretty much have the '4:30 line' envisioned in my head. So I feel like I'm trying to put my right elbow in front of my right hip while staying on the 4:30 line.
3JACK
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tball88
'88 Apex Redlines
Posts: 139
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Post by tball88 on Mar 18, 2010 20:14:44 GMT -5
ok, hit balls today and started getting good results with Lag's pivot ideas and TGM's hitting ideas. IE: pivot hard and flat and left, while driving the right arm straight down. Was getting very nice results.
I think a good point was made earlier about TGM hitting not focusing enough on the pivot.
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Post by slice_oftheday on Mar 18, 2010 20:51:32 GMT -5
After a few range sessions with thoughts of standard knee action, setting the pitch elbow on the 4:30 line after the transition, and a flexed left knee at impact, my ball-striking has changed dramatically with my flight almost always a hook/strong draw flight. My divots are shallow (like bacon strips) and they are are pointing to the right as opposed to divots pointing left with my spin out move (as seen with my swing video in the Help with your Swing forum). My old miss was always weak right off the toe, now all I hit are hooks with center/heel contact with my upright Cleveland irons. I'm going to get Dad's old set of Spalding Qualifier blade irons bent 5° flat to combat the hook in accordance with ABS, as well as boost the swingweights with lead tape and S300 shafts. Very excited about the recent developments, and I can't wait to get out there with flat clubs.
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tball88
'88 Apex Redlines
Posts: 139
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Post by tball88 on Mar 18, 2010 20:58:45 GMT -5
with abs, do you set the clubshaft or the elbow on the 4:30 line?
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Post by slice_oftheday on Mar 18, 2010 21:01:02 GMT -5
It is my understanding that the clubshaft should get on the elbow plane on the downswing, which is the 4:30 line
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tball88
'88 Apex Redlines
Posts: 139
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Post by tball88 on Mar 18, 2010 21:04:00 GMT -5
I am very interested in getting more detail, but I'm struggling justifying paying $200 a module for on-line lessons. If it was in person,I might be more interested. I'm trying to piece it together from what I have read.
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Post by slice_oftheday on Mar 18, 2010 21:06:19 GMT -5
I want to start the modules when I get the time and the funds to devote to them. In the mean time, I've been reading as much as I can of Erickson's posts and Rich's "light bulb" posts on the ABS forum, as they have significantly helped.
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Post by Richie3Jack on Mar 18, 2010 21:43:44 GMT -5
4:30 line = elbow plane.
I just think of it as a line at about a 45* angle from the target line. I think it's a smart way of teaching because it uses what the golfer actually sees.
So far I'm very happy with the actual modules. I'm not too nutty on the price increase or how it was handled. And I don't know what the future holds for me, so down the road I may not be able to afford the modules. And I really don't think I can handle a price increase.
But, if you can afford it and even more important, if you have the time to do it, then I would give it a shot because I think it's good and you can always back out at anytime. So if you do Module 1 and don't like it, you don't have to do Module 2.
But, it's very important that you can set time to do it.
3JACK
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Post by siteseer2 on Mar 20, 2010 22:05:10 GMT -5
4:30 line = elbow plane. I just think of it as a line at about a 45* angle from the target line. I think it's a smart way of teaching because it uses what the golfer actually sees. So far I'm very happy with the actual modules. I'm not too nutty on the price increase or how it was handled. And I don't know what the future holds for me, so down the road I may not be able to afford the modules. And I really don't think I can handle a price increase. But, if you can afford it and even more important, if you have the time to do it, then I would give it a shot because I think it's good and you can always back out at anytime. So if you do Module 1 and don't like it, you don't have to do Module 2. But, it's very important that you can set time to do it. 3JACK R3J the 4:30 line is HANDPATH...which is Far different from plane angle (ie SSP, TSP, EP etc)... I'm following Lags stuff because I took the journey on the ISeek that lasted FOREVER... and he seems like a good guy... BUT you can't get cp (as he wants) if the handpath at p6 (darome/TGM) is 45 degrees "in"...so I understand this is a stepping stone approach...but Mod1 already has me scratching my head...
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Post by Richie3Jack on Mar 20, 2010 22:28:50 GMT -5
R3J the 4:30 line is HANDPATH...which is Far different from plane angle (ie SSP, TSP, EP etc)... I'm following Lags stuff because I took the journey on the ISeek that lasted FOREVER... and he seems like a good guy... BUT you can't get cp (as he wants) if the handpath at p6 (darome/TGM) is 45 degrees "in"...so I understand this is a stepping stone approach...but Mod1 already has me scratching my head... I disagree. The shaft, sweetspot and the hands go on the 4:30 line. If you do that, you will be on the elbow plane. You cannot get on the TSP or the SSP if you're on the 4:30 ine I also disagree you can't use a CP release if you're on the 4:30 line which is about at a 45* angle to the target line. Like I said, it puts you on the elbow plane and in order to 'zero out the path', you almost have to have a CP release. Look at Lag's swing: I think he came about this CP release from years of studying, but also basically figuring out that in order to hit it dead straight being on that flat of a downswing plane, he needed to release the club to the left. In Trackman terms, he is just 'zeroing out the path.' I think Module 2 is the first part that helps with the CP release and then Module 3 makes bigger strides...then after that I'm not really sure. 3JACK
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Post by siteseer2 on Mar 21, 2010 8:54:56 GMT -5
R3J
I LIKE Lag, so I'm going to reserve judgement...
I disagree with you and the 4:30 line---its ALL about handpath... I could play from the elbow plane, and at p6 be more neutral and alot less "In" (ie 45 degrees) which is the darome way...
I could also shift out and down, and catch the elbow plane which is the Snead , DiVencenzo way... Point is there are alot of ways to hit the elbow plane without being 45 degrees in... Which is ALOT in...I can understand if you wanted to cf it, and play push draws---ala Gary Player...
Interesting photos of Lag... shows exactly what I am not sure about--- Lag has tremendous internal rotation of right shoulder and right elbow (wrongly) and he rolls all hell out of#3 so in that pic he's hitting a pull cut...
Like I said, Maybe there are other pieces, and the drill is just a FEEL...It would make sense that for beginners in his Mods that you want to be "in" initially, to prevent an OTT move and give the feel of being in...I'm not so sure the dumping #1 and 4 a little earlier, isn't where one winds up and is a better move--than coming so acutely inside the baseline...time will tell
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Post by Richie3Jack on Mar 21, 2010 9:24:13 GMT -5
The thing is, in Module 1 he specifically wants the student to put the shaft on the 4:30 line. So it's not just the hands. If you don't have that shaft on the 4:30 line, you'll keep having to do M1 until you gt it right.
I've talked to people who have played with Lag personally and I trust their word and all of them say he hits the ball very straight and can work it on command and hits about 14-18 GIR using persimmon woods and vintage blades on tough tracks.
According to Lag, going into M3 you're likely to be hitting hooks and then it gets straightened out a bit.
Personally I do occasionally hit some big push hooks and my misses are usually well struck push or thin shots. Low point control is a problem I have, but I had that problem before getting into the modules.
However, I also have my lie angles in my irons at 5* flat. I think I've pulled hooked them maybe 3 times since I've bent them flat. But standard lie angle irons I cannot help but hook the crap out of them.
From my experience and talking to other ABS students (the ones I get along with), the ball will fly dead straight or you hit a push or a push draw.
3JACK
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Post by siteseer2 on Mar 21, 2010 10:43:43 GMT -5
Yup....thanks...always like to learn from different perspectives...
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Post by Richie3Jack on Mar 21, 2010 10:48:30 GMT -5
How far are you into Module 1?
3JACK
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tball88
'88 Apex Redlines
Posts: 139
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Post by tball88 on Mar 23, 2010 18:39:42 GMT -5
Richie, given Lag's shallow attack, left turn and angled hinge action, do you find that you have to setup with a slightly closed clubface, or you risk losing the ball right?
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