tball88
'88 Apex Redlines
Posts: 139
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Post by tball88 on Mar 14, 2010 18:30:31 GMT -5
ok, I have studied Lynn Blake's hitting and been reading a lot of Lagpressure of ABS hitting style. It seems that Lagpressure is much more pivot driven, wanting a very flat shoulder turn and actually firing the right hand into impact, no flip will occur because of the agreesive pivot. There is no roll, just fire the right hand which creates and angled hinge.
Lynn Blake hitting actually drives the right forearm towards the ball and tries to maintain a bent right wrist throughout. It seems Lag is ok with unbending and firing the right hand at the ball.
it appears to me that Lag is pivot driven hitting and lynn's thoughts are hand controlled pivot.
For those familiar with both, am I on the right path?
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Post by Richie3Jack on Mar 14, 2010 19:10:51 GMT -5
You're on the right path, although Lag doesn't really care about shoulder turn. He wants the golfer on the elbow plane. That's mandatory in ABS and he also wants pitch elbow. LBG hitting will usually get the golfer on the TSP on the downswing with punch elbow (although he can teach the other as it was part of TGM's 6th edition and not their 7th edition).
ABS hitting is defined by whether or not the golfer uses a CP release. LBG hitting is defined by whether or not the golfer drive loads.
3JACK
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tball88
'88 Apex Redlines
Posts: 139
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Post by tball88 on Mar 14, 2010 20:18:00 GMT -5
Interesting, I thought I had read in some of Lagpressure's posts that he really like a flat shoulder turn while the hands fired down.
In trying the move, I will say it seems to have a lot of anti-left tendencies, especially with the angled hinge.
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tball88
'88 Apex Redlines
Posts: 139
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Post by tball88 on Mar 14, 2010 20:20:44 GMT -5
Richie, here is the quote, I'm referring too.
Hitting,
Now if you fight that expanding circle action, you have to use an angle hinge, no wrist roll and the club is released by the rotation of the body. If you stand behind a golfer with this motion, the hands will quickly disappear around the body after impact… kind of like cutting it left..... by pulling the club out of it’s natural longitudinal orbit, you create a massive amount of pressure in your hands, on all three pressure points. This pressure in your hands is FEEL! and this is the feel that you can learn to utilize to control the ball exactly how you want to…. a three yard draw, a five yard fade, low, high, it’s all yours if you can learn to do it. Warning! You have to have strong arms and hands if you are planning on rotating fast and hitting it far!
On top of that, you have to learn what I believe to be the most difficult swing move in all of golf. Straightening the right arm out quickly on the downswing…while the torso turns flat or at right angles to the spine or axis. It’s a great move to master though, because if you can do it, you can’t ever get over the top of the shot and pull it. For those who are still confused, it feels like you are coming right over the top to hit a big pull shot, but instead, that hands move straight down, as if they are going to land in your right hip pocket, but your shoulders are turning as flat a a 15th century spanish globe.
I have seen that move win a lot of money and tournaments.
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Post by Richie3Jack on Mar 14, 2010 20:54:03 GMT -5
I think the shouder turn in his hitting procedure tends to be flat, but it's not mandatory. That's because of the CP release that is mandatory and his downswing on the elbow plane. A big reason why it's anti-left is that you swing flat enough on the downswing so the over the top move is taken out of the equation and the lie angles on your club are so flat that it's tough to hit a hook once you get the procedure down. I'm playing with 5* flat clubs right now and I stand at 6'4" tall. Now, I actually have short legs for a man my height, so flatter clubs are possible IMO. But I still need a lot of knee flex. Somebody your height could go 8* flat in his ABS hitting procedure. Good luck hooking clubs that flat. 3JACK
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Post by gmbtempe on Mar 14, 2010 22:03:51 GMT -5
CP release and angled hinge is where its at for control of the golf ball. I know you can CF with angled hinge it just seems harder for me to do that.
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Post by TeddyIrons on Mar 15, 2010 1:57:02 GMT -5
tball - you're interpretation of ABS is about right. He does like a flat shoulder turn although in none of the modules that I've taken so far, does he talk about it. Of course he also likes to fight CF post impact.
The one correction I'd make to your OP is that he likes to fire with both hands - not just the right hand.
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Post by jonnygrouville on Mar 15, 2010 2:43:14 GMT -5
...as flat a a 15th century spanish globe. Enjoying the discussion. Nothing to add other than my enjoyment of that similie. ;D
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Post by golfbaka on Mar 15, 2010 12:14:15 GMT -5
'Lag is ok with unbending and firing the right hand at the ball.' I don't think LAG advocates flattening your right wrist through impact... (Firing PAs 2 & 3 doesn't involve flattening your right wrist.) Both Lynn & Lag would have a bent right arm at impact. With Lynn's TGM hitting the right arm would be straight at 'follow through', with Lag's pattern the right arm would be bent up to 'P4' and then straighten with his so called 5th accumulator to PV5. The Poster Child for Lynn Blake style hitting is Ted Fort... www.youtube.com/watch?v=cI6hwUD1O80&feature=PlayList&p=A9B2E864C2DC1EED&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=9
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Post by gmbtempe on Mar 15, 2010 12:25:54 GMT -5
In the way Lynn Blake describes the big difference to me is the visual equivalents and that you have the cross line thrust out at the ball. I am not an ABS member but thats the TGM cut shot procedure where ABS advocates the plane line rotated left of the ball target line (CP release). That is my periphery take on ABS.
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tball88
'88 Apex Redlines
Posts: 139
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Post by tball88 on Mar 15, 2010 16:55:05 GMT -5
golfbaka, unless I'm wrong, Lag advocates firing the hands (ie) turning through impact, and Lynn advocates driving a bent right wrist through impact.
I think the thought process with lag, is that if your pivot is good you can fire the hands at the ball all you want and you'll still have a flat left wrist at impact, where Lynn tries to keep a flat left wrist throughout.
I could be misinterpreting what lag is saying though.
Here's my problem, what exactly is firing the hands, it could be unbending, it could be turning an rolling??
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Post by Richie3Jack on Mar 15, 2010 20:31:43 GMT -5
It's unbending of the RIGHT wrist. I disagree with the notion that the RIGHT wrist is flat at impact. Doesn't happen. It *unbends* but does not become fully flat at impact.
Sometime when the weather turns around, we'll have to play together Tom and I can show you what he means by firing the hands.
3JACK
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tball88
'88 Apex Redlines
Posts: 139
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Post by tball88 on Mar 15, 2010 20:47:18 GMT -5
That's what I thought Richie, however, if I understand correctly with a good pivot, you can't flip. You're unbending the right wrist, however, it's not fully unbent until well after impact.
Love to get out and play, although I'm begining to believe it is never going to warm up.
They just airated our greens today and I hear it's getting downt o 37 tonight. ugh..
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Post by Richie3Jack on Mar 15, 2010 21:18:01 GMT -5
They're aerating at Windermere as well. But you've got the exact idea really on ABS.
3JACK
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Post by siteseer2 on Mar 15, 2010 21:29:13 GMT -5
Hitting,
Now if you fight that expanding circle action, you have to use an angle hinge, no wrist roll and the club is released by the rotation of the body. If you stand behind a golfer with this motion, the hands will quickly disappear around the body after impact… kind of like cutting it left..... by pulling the club out of it’s natural longitudinal orbit, you create a massive amount of pressure in your hands, on all three pressure points. This pressure in your hands is FEEL! and this is the feel that you can learn to utilize to control the ball exactly how you want to…. a three yard draw, a five yard fade, low, high, it’s all yours if you can learn to do it. Warning! You have to have strong arms and hands if you are planning on rotating fast and hitting it far!
On top of that, you have to learn what I believe to be the most difficult swing move in all of golf. Straightening the right arm out quickly on the downswing…while the torso turns flat or at right angles to the spine or axis. It’s a great move to master though, because if you can do it, you can’t ever get over the top of the shot and pull it. For those who are still confused, it feels like you are coming right over the top to hit a big pull shot, but instead, that hands move straight down, as if they are going to land in your right hip pocket, but your shoulders are turning as flat a a 15th century spanish globe.
I have seen that move win a lot of money and tournaments.
The above is interesting...is it Lag's paradigm??
Because my response would be that to do this (dump#4 and especially #1, ie., early release of right arm) would result in the left arm being too far inside the baseline, and consequently in order to spit the sweetspot OUT to the ball you'd have to roll#3...
I'd note how similiar the above quote is to Hardy's 1PS--amazingly similiar, as I've personally heard JH talk about throwing the right hand into the right hip pocket...and turning the core like you'd pull-hit a baseball into the 3rd base dugout!!! And that was 5 years ago...
Can Anyone comment on the quote--is it Lag's theory? If so, seems the geometry is off... with the right arm straightening idea...will wind up WAY inside the baseline, and the sweetspot will be underplane....
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