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Post by Ringer on May 8, 2010 20:11:58 GMT -5
I went and saw Ralph West who I used to work with back at Copper Canyon. One of the few guys I will REALLY trust to work on my swing. If he tells me to do something, I'll do it. Unlike the majority of instructors out there who I find just mimic what others say. New Swing After Lesson - www.swingacademy.com/videoPlayer.aspx?id=6445Swing Before Lesson - www.swingacademy.com/videoPlayer.aspx?id=4609He had me do two things. First let my left arm roll more taking the club back and have my hands get flatter, more around my right shoulder. I know someone on this board will be thrilled to hear that.  Second, he wanted me to use my lower body MORE on the forward swing. He wanted me to really let my legs go. The results were EXCELLENT. I have never seen so many beautiful draws in my life. They weren't pull draws either. They would start right and draw back. |
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Post by Richie3Jack on May 9, 2010 8:27:35 GMT -5
The lower body action on the downswing was something I would've worked on if you came to me for swing advice. You do swing on a steeper plane than I like to, but it's always hard to tell with good golfers if that works best for them or not. Your clubface is a little more closed in the startdown than I would like to see.
Much better footwork though. I believe that's why you are hitting it much better.
3JACK
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Post by Ringer on May 9, 2010 17:54:18 GMT -5
Richie you're right. The clubface is still too closed for my taste but that's a product of old habit. Now that I don't have to shut the face early in order to square it I can weed it out. I just have to get comfortable first.
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Post by Richie3Jack on May 9, 2010 20:08:08 GMT -5
I had the same problem. ABS got me out of it. There's a Phil Mickelson pic I saw the other day that shows him with a beautifully square clubface on the startdown...really how you're supposed to do it. Hopefully I can find it somewhere.
3JACK
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Post by Ringer on May 9, 2010 22:17:39 GMT -5
I just have to start trusting it. Shutting the face early was the only way I could play. Now it's causing hooks. Hooks are the LAST thing I used to see with my swing.
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Post by gmbtempe on May 9, 2010 22:54:36 GMT -5
Richie you're right. The clubface is still too closed for my taste but that's a product of old habit. Now that I don't have to shut the face early in order to square it I can weed it out. I just have to get comfortable first. What frame are you looking at for the closed face? I just put you up against Nicklaus at frame 44 and your club face looks like it is at 12 oclock while Nicklaus is at 11. Small difference at that point, the video is very grainy with few frames. |
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Post by Ringer on May 10, 2010 12:01:03 GMT -5
I guess the biggest difference is, I don't WANT Nicklaus's swing. I know, sounds odd huh? IMO I have far better balance and I don't want to have to learn how to have poor balance in order to make the swing work. I want to improve MY swing. My swing has certain flaws which I have had for years. Namely the re-route to the top, the shut face coming down, lack of lag leading into impact, and very high hands.
Don't get me wrong, Nicklaus had a great swing for him. It worked. But I would develop back problems, ankle problems, and wrist problems if I tried to get more "Nicklaus-esqe".
I would also say my club is more 1 o'clock than 12. I'm also doing it with a weaker grip than most people have.
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Post by gmbtempe on May 10, 2010 15:06:10 GMT -5
I guess the biggest difference is, I don't WANT Nicklaus's swing. I know, sounds odd huh? IMO I have far better balance and I don't want to have to learn how to have poor balance in order to make the swing work. I want to improve MY swing. My swing has certain flaws which I have had for years. Namely the re-route to the top, the shut face coming down, lack of lag leading into impact, and very high hands. Don't get me wrong, Nicklaus had a great swing for him. It worked. But I would develop back problems, ankle problems, and wrist problems if I tried to get more "Nicklaus-esqe". I would also say my club is more 1 o'clock than 12. I'm also doing it with a weaker grip than most people have. Is there a swing you use as a model for comparison then? |
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Post by Ringer on May 12, 2010 15:14:41 GMT -5
I guess the biggest difference is, I don't WANT Nicklaus's swing. I know, sounds odd huh? IMO I have far better balance and I don't want to have to learn how to have poor balance in order to make the swing work. I want to improve MY swing. My swing has certain flaws which I have had for years. Namely the re-route to the top, the shut face coming down, lack of lag leading into impact, and very high hands. Don't get me wrong, Nicklaus had a great swing for him. It worked. But I would develop back problems, ankle problems, and wrist problems if I tried to get more "Nicklaus-esqe". I would also say my club is more 1 o'clock than 12. I'm also doing it with a weaker grip than most people have. Is there a swing you use as a model for comparison then? No. I don't think I need a model. There are certain aspects of others swings that I like and would like to incorporate, but there is no model. I think I make an incredible pivot. IMO it's one of the best. I have more power in my pivot than a lot of the guys on tour. Back when I weight 130 lbs I could bomb it with professional baseball players. It wasn't because of arm strength, I can guarantee that much. My my pattern does have some issues. As I've mentioned before, the early shut face which doesn't allow me to sustain any lag. The high hands. And the re-route at the top. Frankly, if I just fix those three things I know I would be Tour caliber. My short game is great. I average 30-32 putts a round despite being 30-40 feet away for birdie 12 out of 18 times. If I was half that distance away on the greens, I would easily be in the 27-28 putts range. My driving distance may not be long drive champ, but 320 yard drives are not uncommon for me. I am very rarely in trouble off the tee either. It's always the irons that give me fits. Hence why I'm so good around the greens, I get lots of practice. So to go back to your point, I don't really want to model anyone. I think my swing is just shy of Tour. I would much rather make changes to what I have than change everything to match what someone else has. |
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Post by jonnygrouville on May 12, 2010 20:30:34 GMT -5
Well confidence isn't your problem. Let me guess - you're not British. I do agree with you on the model though - it is useful to analysis what other people do and consider all the options, but, at the end of the day, you know your swing. In retrospect, looking back at some of the coaching I had (particularly at college), I should have said 'Sorry, I don't want to change that; fix something else', especially when I haven't been given a good enough reason. As we have discussed before, numerous things can be changed to find the balance we are all after. |
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Post by gmbtempe on May 12, 2010 21:24:19 GMT -5
I think you should make useful comparisons....I love it when someone who swings like Craig Stadler and then puts up pics of Ben Hogan and says "look at the difference, what am I doing wrong". What I have found out is that since there are so many components that can be used it gets to be very dangerous making un-like comparisons. This is not really so much for Ringer as he is a teaching professional, just a general opinion.
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Post by Ringer on May 13, 2010 22:12:36 GMT -5
Well I've been practicing every couple of days out on the driving range. Luckily there is one just 2 blocks from my apartment. Unfortunately they have the fake grass. It's better than hitting off a mat, but it still doesn't give you the feeling of real turf.
The results are really astounding. My misses are just a few yards off but carrying the same yardage. Far more solid off the face. The opening of the clubface in the backswing is really helping my release as now my main shot is a draw and my misses are just straight or a little over cooked draws. It is very rare for me to miss with a cut.
I don't see a huge change in yardage, just very consistent yardage. I did manage to take some video but it's not very good. It's a little dark so I'll wait to post new video until I can do it in more daylight. But here are my observations after some practice.
The swing is flatter going back and I still have a slight re-route, however since I'm starting the reroute from a lower location, the new plane is also flatter. The clubface is staying open later in the forward swing which allows for more lag. I'm not shutting the face so early. At the last minute I can really feel my forearms roll and square the face. I don't have to force the release anymore. And lastly my hands are still a little high, but my left arm makes a straight line with the club to the ball. The hand's aren't "propped up" like they used to get, they're just in line between my left shoulder and the ball.
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Post by Ringer on May 15, 2010 21:05:35 GMT -5
Here is my latest recording. It's solid quality and 1 week of working on the changes. The biggest change I see is the path the clubhead is taking to the ball. It's much flatter and from the inside. There is hardly any reroute either. I take it up the elbow plan but shift to the TSP. I'm no longer taking it above the TSP though. I'm getting under it much better. I could still improve the spine tilt a bit as I still tend to get my shoulders going too soon. www.swingacademy.com/videoPlayer.aspx?id=6501 |
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Post by jonnygrouville on May 16, 2010 20:28:18 GMT -5
That's interesting.
How are you opening the face on the backswing? Are you just rotating the clubface sooner / feeling the backswing start with the toe? Is there a risk of getting the clubhead inside too soon?
Would be interested to hear how you are going about this...
And how does it feel through the ball?
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Post by Ringer on May 17, 2010 12:44:59 GMT -5
That's interesting. How are you opening the face on the backswing? Are you just rotating the clubface sooner / feeling the backswing start with the toe? Is there a risk of getting the clubhead inside too soon? Would be interested to hear how you are going about this... And how does it feel through the ball? It is possible to open the clubface without taking it inside, but even then I'm not sure it matters. What matters is getting the club into a position at the top where you can deliver the club. What I think the "rolling forearms" early does for me is keep my elbows closer together going back with my right arm under the shaft. This helps give me a "pitch" elbow on the way forward and for me an automatic release. |
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