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Post by gmbtempe on Jun 1, 2011 9:49:06 GMT -5
Jules, your swing looks pretty good to me. Yes slightly out of position at P6 but the alignments at impact are solid. You flip it because of your pivot IMO and less about your alignments. I think the more you can get your hands forward the more the shoulders will open, hips open, and the less the club head will overtake and cause the slight flip. I am sure some of this is flexibility rather then the actual swing. The two ball drill you are doing will help get the hands forward. You can also try putting the ball well up in your stance as a drill to force the right shoulder out which again helps in getting hips and shoulders open.
I asked about the contact because video wise I think you can play pretty good golf with that swing.
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Post by tightdraw on Jun 1, 2011 10:55:35 GMT -5
thanks greg as always. spot on
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Post by rohlio on Jun 7, 2011 0:27:01 GMT -5
I just watched the video of you doing the two drills. That looks very solid.
Have you ever tried simply picking a spot in front of the ball and letting your eyes focus on a blade of grass there while playing?
I believe that one of the things that causes the club to dump early is the obvious notion of trying to hit the ball rather than swing the club. When we visually focus on the ball it is often accompanied by the latent thought "Hit that". Dumping the club early is a very effective way to "Hit that" but not a very effective way to actually play golf. So by shifting the mental focus to a spot past the ball you change your intention and allow your body to provide a different motion for this different goal.
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Post by Richie3Jack on Jun 7, 2011 9:28:57 GMT -5
Looks like the new PING G20 driver is copying Ryoma design. 3JACK
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Post by tightdraw on Jun 7, 2011 18:51:07 GMT -5
Richie, Isn't that amazing! I have both now-- just demoing the Ryoma. The Ping G15 was built for me and as a result i hit it a bit further, but the Ryoma is an amazing club. I can't mis hit it. Every shot has a great trajectory and splits the fairway. The shaft isn't right for me and I was nevertheless considering having one made with a more suitable shaft, but now I will pause until I see what that Ping is like. I knew the Ryoma was special, and it really is. I recommend it to anyone; apparently Ping is listening :-)
TD
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Post by tightdraw on Jun 7, 2011 19:04:44 GMT -5
Rohlio, I fully agree and in the past I have had no problem with the aiming point. iTeach had suggested that my flip is the result of having to close an open clubface. Jeff Mann resisted this idea claiming that it was likely caused by my running out of right arm. Both are plausible explanations of course. In working with Spencer he gave me an online lesson one part of which involved a change in my transition. This transition had two parts moving simultaneously. The upper right arm being brought quickly against the right rib cage while the hips move forward. This is MUCH harder than it seems because it is a conscious move of the right upper arm that for me did not happen naturally and it is not where my right arm naturally wanted to go. In fact one of the main problems in my swing is that my arms simply did not move down out and forward just because I had started my forward pivot. They were completely on their own. This is a conscious intentional move to get them working together. I did it today in practice for the first time. it leads to a bit of axis tilt and a more synced swing. Much improved, but I still flip released -- even though contact was much better. Well I looked at the vids -- especially DTL -- and you cannot miss at p6 how OPEN my clubface is even though on my take-away it is square to the arc. I am not sure how it gets so open but it sure does and I believe that in my case there really is a flip at least in part due to the need to close the clubface. Also one thng Spencer urged was that this transition move has an additional benefit of having the clubshaft line up with the right forearm flying wedge in the downswing instead of the left arm flying wedge. And I'll be damned if he isn't right. You can see it in the DTL video with the driver below. It's amazing. The club flattens and comes down on the right forearm in line with the wedge. Here are the two vids on you tube I posted today. please excuse two things: my terrible camera work and my allergies which have me sniffling to beat the band. It is also very hot here in CT. www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLtUohkZohowww.youtube.com/watch?v=2cT3jcrRras
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Post by rohlio on Jun 7, 2011 19:53:03 GMT -5
I just loaded both of those videos into my V1 and watched them both myriad times on frame by frame. One note I would make on your camera work. You would obtain more easily comparable results on the dtl view if you set the camera up to aim down the parallel left line not the target line. Basically the camera should be looking down a line that is able to have your body as it's central focus not the ball/target line. It makes it much easier to see the relationships between components. I think both Jeff and Dan are correct in that the tuck right elbow move certainly is helping you but also you are getting the clubface open at p6 without a bit of a flip golf would be unplayable. You said you aren't sure how you are getting the face so open at p6 despite it being square to the arc at p2. I think you need to take a close look at your wrist action on the downswing. Specifically look at the difference in relation between your left wrist and forearm at p2 versus p6. during the downswing you are rotating PA3 clockwise and cupping the left wrist. This is opening the club face and means you now have to roll really hard to get the face to square up. Interestingly enough I also went frame by frame through your practice swings (pump drill) during the practice swings you eliminated the clockwise rotation and wrist cup move. If it were me I would do a lot of work in the mirror feeling the motion in my left wrist. Here is a picture albeit grainy ( youtube download plus photo manipulation isn't as clear as it shoudl be) You can see the relation of you LAFW at p2 and p4, but look at p6. It looks almost as if you have dorsiflexed you left hand ( your knuckles are pointing skyward), this is accompanied by what appears to me as a rotation of the left forearm. These two things add up to rolling the face open from p4 to p6 as you can see at p6 you had a great relationship between the left hand and the face. Hope this is helpful. If it isn't feel free to discard it. Cheers.
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Post by tightdraw on Jun 7, 2011 22:09:35 GMT -5
Wow Rohlio, great catch. I believe that must be a hangover of my ABS days. so much a part of my DNA I didn't even notice it or feel it. That said, I sure like the way my swing looks good at p4 and pretty good at p2, but what a mess at p6!! And you are completely right. Martin Chuck sent me a new device he is working on that if i used it this problem would go away in a hurry. I will show everyone how it works in a couple of vids once i return from a family wedding in LA. Wow Rohlio, that seems so right BTW, what then is it about the swing that makes you think Jeff is right. TD
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Post by tightdraw on Jun 7, 2011 22:28:39 GMT -5
This is the position that Rohlio is talking about and man is he right. Attachments:
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benita
Beat up Radials
Posts: 32
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Post by benita on Jun 8, 2011 6:22:53 GMT -5
He is not only correct, but if it were me--I'd stop right there and focus on it for a while. You will probably feel like sending him some dollars! At the very least, you and your sweet spot will become very good friends. GOOD LUCK.
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Post by tightdraw on Jun 8, 2011 6:29:32 GMT -5
thanks benita. what a revelation to see it up close and personal -- that is, on video!! iTeach must have seen it as well since his immediate reaction was that my flip release was the result of my need to get the clubface square. since I had been so focused on getting a good position at p4 I had simply assumed I would keep the hand/clubface relation intact until impact, but it is pretty obvious now that I did not. it's amazing what another three hundred sets of good eyes can see and what you can miss when you aren't looking with yours open!
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Post by rohlio on Jun 8, 2011 18:40:47 GMT -5
BTW, what then is it about the swing that makes you think Jeff is right. TD You are certainly welcome, I hope it opens a floodgate for you. As to the above comment. I was noting that the prescribed move of tucking the right elbow in sooner will help you to get your left hand farther down range by p7, and thus make it easier to get forward shaft lean. I don't think it would eliminate the flip except that with more shaft lean if you continued to flip you would start to smother the ball, which would give flipping negative feedback and encourage not doing it. If it were me or somebody who I was coaching I would first fix the wrist and forearm action post p4, before addressing the right elbow.
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Post by tightdraw on Jun 8, 2011 19:45:43 GMT -5
Fortunately I am in LA for a family wedding and so I can't drive myself crazy until Monday working on these issues. I have a sense of what to do and will post vids as I get going -- and hopefully make progress. TD
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hmsmai
Beat up Radials
3Jack Top 50 Instructor
Posts: 27
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Post by hmsmai on Jun 8, 2011 20:36:00 GMT -5
I by no means want to say anyone is wrong here, but I would caution against changing wrist alignments when the centers are still very stacked and the club is not consistently lining up with the right arm flying wedge. Jules was using a pattern that is perfectly usable, but has someone swinging on a "turning shoulder plane", club lining up with the left arm and slide not only in the hips, but the upper center also. These components are defining pieces that setup a flip release.
If you change the wrist alignments right now, then what you're going to have is a tweener pivot, but erring towards the initial as it is his tendency and a sweetspot that gets too closed on the arc. The ball is going to come off low and left for a while. Now I'm all for having someone make changes, but when you're effectively changing patterns - the wrist alignments come last.
I'm all for changing the wrist alignments, but I think for anyone, it's important to understand the the wrist alignments are the biggest and most tedious change someone can make that will affect the face big time. The pivot has to be improved first IMO. He's got a pattern that works really well, but it isn't the "look" he wants at this point. I'll say it because I've said to him - don't ever, ever start chasing a look on video. It's all about making components match.
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Post by cloran on Jun 8, 2011 20:58:15 GMT -5
This is the position that Rohlio is talking about and man is he right. It's probably just the driver. Trying to square the face of something as big as your head must be difficult. ...keep on moving guys...no parallax here... nothing to see...
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