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Post by rohlio on Jun 8, 2011 23:25:11 GMT -5
I by no means want to say anyone is wrong here, but I would caution against changing wrist alignments when the centers are still very stacked and the club is not consistently lining up with the right arm flying wedge. Jules was using a pattern that is perfectly usable, but has someone swinging on a "turning shoulder plane", club lining up with the left arm and slide not only in the hips, but the upper center also. These components are defining pieces that setup a flip release. If you change the wrist alignments right now, then what you're going to have is a tweener pivot, but erring towards the initial as it is his tendency and a sweetspot that gets too closed on the arc. The ball is going to come off low and left for a while. Now I'm all for having someone make changes, but when you're effectively changing patterns - the wrist alignments come last. I'm all for changing the wrist alignments, but I think for anyone, it's important to understand the the wrist alignments are the biggest and most tedious change someone can make that will affect the face big time. The pivot has to be improved first IMO. He's got a pattern that works really well, but it isn't the "look" he wants at this point. I'll say it because I've said to him - don't ever, ever start chasing a look on video. It's all about making components match. That is a great post. I agree you have to be careful when changing components, however, I was simply answering his question about how he managed to get the face open at p6 when it was in good alignment at p2 and p4. Having an order of progression is important and it should be clear to the person taking the journey.
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hmsmai
Beat up Radials
3Jack Top 50 Instructor
Posts: 27
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Post by hmsmai on Jun 9, 2011 5:24:46 GMT -5
I understand Rholio. You made an excellent point! Down the road - he'll be ready to change it as well. I hope he'll stick with it and continue to make it change...he's making great progress.
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Post by tightdraw on Jun 9, 2011 22:56:54 GMT -5
speaking for myself, I am working on the pivot as Spencer suggests. I think there is much to what Rohlio says, but one thing at a time. Spencer is the boss; and everywhere I look for help, the first thing everyone says is get the lower COG going forward, the upper stay back; and that's number one on my list now. as part of that I am working my right arm bicep to my rib cage and moving LCOG forward. the next thing is making sure I keep upper COG back.. after that and only after that will be extending post impact. after all those parts I will work on wrists and angle hinging. i I am making a total change from a swing that i have had one or another version of forever and never had a handicap above single digits and was scratch for years. the problem is it was not what i want in terms of quality of contact. so all must change, but one piece at a time. i have really improved the backswing
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Post by tightdraw on Jun 10, 2011 1:36:41 GMT -5
sorry, my last post was rushed. I am out in Pasadena for a family wedding and I was called for dinner (three times) and had to run. Here's how I see it. I believe as I know Spencer does that a swing is the interaction of a number of parts. A good swing or a workable one is one in which the parts complement one another. I had such a swing and it was pretty good when I played seriously. Like anything else it deteriorated with age and also with lack of use. I didn't play for nearly 10 years after a serious injury that led to atrophy of many of my right side muscles in my chest, right arm and back.. I am down about 10-15% of my strength after much rehab and lack some of teh fludity I had all those years. When I took up golf again a little over a year ago, i had the good rhythm i always had, good hand eye coordination,e tc. In no time I had a decent short game again. What drove me nuts was taht I couldn't hit the ball as far as I had in the past. This led to exaggerations in all the normal moves of my swing; and that exposed the swing and its flaws. To be honest, my original motivation was to find a way to hit the ball farther as I had gone from 170 yd 7 irons to 145-150 (max) 7 irons; and from 275 yd drives to 230 yd drives max. The game was driving me nuts. It was a different game and I just tried to do what I always had done but with more oomph. Instead, I found clubhead throw-away and sloppiness that had never been there before. But in time I realized that what I hated was that my contact wasn't great. I could get away with that in the past, but now it was obvious and its impact emotionally and physically unpleasant. Thing is, I didn't know where to begin to improve. I was lost. I worked with a TGM teacher, with Lag (who is a great guy, obviously a wonderful golfer, and something of a renaissance man), a one plane teacher in Ct, Jeff Ritter, George Hunt, etc. I had never been lost before. I had learned from the Strafaci brothers in Brooklyn and Claude Harmon as a youngster and really never took another lesson of significance until a bit over a year ago. So much had changed in the interim and I had no sense of how golf instruction had changed. Worse, I lost confidence in my own judgments; and had no sense of what my physical limitations or skills were. Several teachers were quite good. I played well with what Jeff Ritter taught me, but he was aloof and disinterested and had larger ambitions and there was no followup. My TGM instructor lived by the book and lacked imagination as to how to make changes. ABS had the limits of on line instruction and no big picture from the outset. you just worked on the modules in isolation. I loved the first module. And I really like John. A lot. In any case, it really wasn't until recently that I realized that I really need to put pieces in place to reconstruct my swing; and that i have to do it in a sequence. I continue to seek advise from a range of places and to get information and 'lessons' from lots of people because I am a junkie for information -- both practical and theoretical. When I started writing audio reviews I had a minimal working knowledge of low powered tube amplifiers, but after a dozen years of reviewing, I became expert in the history of Western Electric, the Garrard turntable, Siemens Klangfilm speakers and so on. I love information and learning. So I send my swing vids to several people to see how they approach it, and I learn accordingly. but one has to follow someone. I am not a golf swing authority, but I wanted to become an authority on choosing an authority in golf instruction. This website is awesome in that regard. But when it comes to following someone, I am committed to the general approach Spencer has laid out for me. Only this past week did I accept that I will have to nail one thing at a time and it will be ugly for a while. Just look at the difference between my backswing and my post impact swing -- forget the downswing. Post - impact i look like a hacker, whereas my back swing is taking shape. Next step is transition and commitment to what the major moves in the downswing must be for me. This is an amazingly difficult and intriguing part of the golf swing -- at least to me. so much of golf success depends on believing in what you are doing. I can get out on a range and swing on the model of the right sided swing and keep my lag and hit the ball with good contact. On the other hand, it doesn't feel like the right swing. It feels like a compromise to me. Not an optimal swing , but a way of playing well enough with minimal work. Just not me. On the other hand, I am moved by the idea of a centralized swing and while i have been able to find moves in the backswing that make that pattern owrk, I have difficulty with other apects of it. This is what makes the game great and frustrating at the same time. So following Richie's lead, I have a list of things to work on in order. After shortening and tightening the backswing a bit, I move next into trasiision and then the question is whether to slide continually or to rotate. After that, it will likely be winter :-) Half the golf world says rotate, the other half saves slide. others ar stuck Thanks everyone for your kindess and insight.
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Post by gmbtempe on Jun 10, 2011 8:22:41 GMT -5
"Siemens Klangfilm speakers"
ahh, turntables and high end speakers
We would get along very well I think.
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Post by Richie3Jack on Jun 10, 2011 8:42:35 GMT -5
This to me is the most difficult and probably the most important part of the process of improving your swing and hitting the ball better.
I've been kinda debating whether or not to do a blog post up on this because I find it that important. But, I don't want to give away too much of the pieces and quite frankly, I think people will tend to gloss over it and not really pay attention which is a bit frustrating as well.
Plus, it's quite difficult to articulate upon. Most people I've come across in golf want a definitive answer and then take it to the range and have it work. But, those 'definitive answers' are really nothing more than a band aid approach to solving the problem because the real problem is usually very complex. And even if you start to understand the complex particulars, then the actual application can screw everything up.
Eh, let me mull it over. Maybe I can come up with a blog post that I find is satisfactory.
3JACK
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Post by tightdraw on Jun 10, 2011 8:55:56 GMT -5
I couldn't agree more with Richie on this. If you don't want to do it yourself I would be happy to be a guest blogger and go through in detail the mistakes I made in trying to reconstruct but not really accepting that it requires actual reconstruction; and what reconstruction really is.
And Greg. I am sure we would get along. If you like you can look up a number of my more well known audio reviews on line. You can find my Shindo electronics reviews linked at Tone Imports; and you can find some reviews in the archives at 6moons.com; others at Superior Audio of enjoythemusic.com others randomly on the internet. when I get back to CT, I will send some jpgs of my home system which includes a Shindo constructed Western Electric 618 step up transformer from the 1940s! the last one standing.
I have written a few pieces comparing audio reproduction to art, but have wanted to write a piece on constructing a golf swing and constructing an audio system.
BTW, I have forced almost nothing on my children except to own a turntable, listen to LPs and when they record music to do so on two inch magnetic tape through analog devices and that all their studio amps must be tubes. Hopefully this will make them better people. It will certainly make their sound richer, fuller and more natural :-)
BTW again, one of the really cool things about Lag is that in addition to being a terrific musician (guitarist), he is an audio geek as well.
TD
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Post by gmbtempe on Jun 10, 2011 9:17:22 GMT -5
I got really into audio about 10 years ago but it was a bit out of my reach dollar wise but I still have quite a bit invested into my system which sadly gets mostly used for home theater now.
I never bought a high end turn table but did spend money on SACD and DVD Audio devices.
My favorite was my Queen DVD Audio of A Night at the Opera. Pink Floyds SACD of Dark Side of the Moon was pretty good as well.
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Post by pavaveda on Jun 10, 2011 9:29:13 GMT -5
I think we would all get along really well. That's probably why some of us stick around longer than others. Golf swings, pure contact, forged metal, hi fi, analog. All of these are on the list of the best things in life.
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Post by Richie3Jack on Jun 10, 2011 9:34:24 GMT -5
Well, if any of you are Red Sox fans...then I'm out. 3JACK
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Post by pavaveda on Jun 10, 2011 9:47:38 GMT -5
As for my time in amateur hi end consumer audio, I was really into it in college and a bit afterwards about (crap) 12 years ago. I was really into high end single-ended tube amplifiers. Even built one (300B) as part of a senior project. Of course, I was on a minimal budget, so it's not the prettiest thing in the world. But it's heavy (think 'iron'), minimal, sounds sweet, and I made it on my own. After college, trying to continue a hobby in diy tube amps was nearly impossible, so I was trying almost every 'budget' diy audio trick you could think of, and eventually I had to look for a less expensive hobby. I stumbled into Linux and that became my obsession for quite a few years. Then poker, now golf. ha. I also had the opportunity to be employed for quite a while at, imho, the best analog recording studio in the world. THAT was a blast.
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ioz
'88 Apex Redlines
Posts: 195
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Post by ioz on Jun 10, 2011 10:16:16 GMT -5
My favorite was my Queen DVD Audio of A Night at the Opera. I love that one, there's so much more detail and new melodies to be heard in that mix!
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Post by tightdraw on Jun 10, 2011 12:31:28 GMT -5
i'm a Mets fan. I dig suffering. Witness my love of golf Nets and Jets too.
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Post by pavaveda on Jun 10, 2011 19:05:37 GMT -5
I became a Cubs fan while in Chicago. Idiot-style suffering. I balance that by being a Red Wings fan.
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Post by tightdraw on Jun 15, 2011 7:53:50 GMT -5
In Colorado visiting my best friend from grad school. He's a medical physicist and a hero to women since he made a big difference in the change in 1993 to mamography testing for women starting at age 40 and annually. After surviving stage for neck and head cancer he semi retired and moved to Ft Collins area to a community with a golf course and has taken up golf again. We've been working on his swing and i will send some before and afters after one day of work. it's cool. Meanwhile his course is beautiful. It's called Harmony. Almost no trees -- lots of tall grass. wide fairways, death for mishits; pot bunkers galore. very UK except no punching onto the green so the designer strikes me as a bit of two minds. It mostly works, but is a very hard course to play on a regular basis. The winds howl out here and you have to keep it down. But then the fairways are pretty soft, so you get the picture. It is basically beautiful, very demanding, but not quite coherent. And very hard on the membership whose demographics are what you would expect. Anything but an 'executive course' We played from the Blues everyday which made for a very challenging 6500 or so yard trek mostly playing into quartering winds. Great challenge. I played exceptionally well for someone in the middle of swing changes. Two rounds so far between --75 and 78. we are off for our last round this morning -- hopefully before the winds come up ;-) Well its got a great practice facility and I have had the chance to work a bit on my swing. Vids below. I had most success on the basic 9-3 drill; best impact alignments yet. www.youtube.com/user/Tightdraw?blend=1&ob=5#p/u/5/bbnlDcl4wKYwww.youtube.com/user/Tightdraw?blend=1&ob=5#p/u/4/XdG4cp7DSaYI also took some vids of 7 iron www.youtube.com/user/Tightdraw?blend=1&ob=5#p/u/3/1_2-WUfilVgwww.youtube.com/user/Tightdraw?blend=1&ob=5#p/u/2/mTr229Ee4v8and driver www.youtube.com/user/Tightdraw?blend=1&ob=5#p/u/1/jV0GvvNfZYwwww.youtube.com/user/Tightdraw?blend=1&ob=5#p/u/0/4R3uSyKoWuMi feel it's much improved, but of course nowhere near there just yet. One interesting thing. several times I had my friend Ed hold handle of the club against left side of my head to make sure i kept my upper center back. without fail I hit the ball best this way which means that while I am improving, I am still moving my upper center forward some and that results in the slight flip that remains. will try to take a vid of my swing today with him keeping my head still. hopefully it will be revealing. Anxious to hear what you guys think. I have worked so far hardest on the setup, backswing and now the transition. next is working to insure stable upper center; then extension post impact and then wrist condition. a bit less than halfway there but the improvement has been noticeable -- at least in ball flight. The left side of the course is taken out of play which is great. My miss is a push that is higher than I would want from time to time. occasionally i have hit the push draw with the driver and I see its attraction. I am nowhere near where I want to be, but I am on track I think :
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