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Post by golfdad on Nov 29, 2011 17:23:55 GMT -5
I was discussing this squat move that Jeffy was demonstrating in the other thread with my kid. She decided to give it a try, hitting an invisible ball this time:)
(New camera should be on the way by now and so put up with this clip for the time being please.)
Is she doing it, let alone is she doing it right?
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Post by jeffy on Nov 29, 2011 20:27:59 GMT -5
Golfdad- You're daughter is hilarious! Now I'm here biggest fan (after you, of course)! Sadly, she isn't even coming close to the "squat". She has a severe case of "get onto the left side" which makes a squat impossible. I know from experience it is a hard habit to break, and I'm only just starting to get the squat right. When you squat and extend correctly, the left leg will have so little weight on it that it can float-rotate through impact. Snead, Palmer, Jamie, pre-2008 Tiger, young Jack, Johnny Miller all had flying left feet when they went after it. Here is some homework: study Kelvin's articles on hip movement, April, May and June 2011. They will give you a detailed understanding of the body movements, as well as some good models to show your daughter to imitate. www.aroundhawaii.com/speed_training.html
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Post by golfdad on Nov 29, 2011 20:40:30 GMT -5
Thanks Jeffy.
This makes learning fun, back to the basement!
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Post by natep on Nov 29, 2011 22:41:04 GMT -5
I used to have a squat move when I was into long drive. It just happened naturally from pumping into the ground so I could jump/pull thru impact. My left foot would spin out after impact but it wasnt because I was hanging back with my weight on the right foot. That foot will spin even if you have all of your weight on it if you are turning hard enough and have enough axis tilt. Just my 0.02c.
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Post by golfdad on Nov 29, 2011 23:00:32 GMT -5
Thanks natep for sharing your experience. Are you hinting that the spinning of the left foot leads to some other issues? Would love to hear more about it.
Having just done a little reading per Jeffy on Kelvin's site, I understand the jump is consisted of hip abduction, hip ext rotation, hip flex, knee flex, grossly speaking and i can see even from other models (palmer, nicklaus, snead etc) that indeed they tend to spin out their left foot.
Just now I invited my older one to give it a try. She complied as if I am again up to no good. I think she was able to emulate the move pretty well,,,and I also noticed her left foot spinning out.
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Post by cloran on Nov 30, 2011 0:14:10 GMT -5
IMHO (very humble opinion at that), this move is a result of good footwork and knee motion, not a conscious action. This is one area I feel that John Erickson has nailed with ABS. I first learned about the necessity of good legwork from him. Spencer Huggins had me view the legwork another way (more precise knee action among other things) and that seems to have stuck with me really well.
When I watch my most recent videos I can see the separation (widening) of the knees from P4-P6, and a rapid closing/posting-up on the left leg into P7 and beyond. Looks like a squat move... feels like "crushing the can" and posting up. No conscious effort to separate the knees or squat into the ground.
What I have noticed is that when I don't post-up powerfully I tend to float over the left side and my left knee extends beyond my left foot (I call it "soft"). With the soft left leg I can hit the ball anywhere on the face, just crap. When I post-up hard I hit the ball much more consistently and farther.
Example: I hadn't been to the range in a few weeks so I hit the mats yesterday. I started with poor legwork and poor results. I took a break and concentrated on my legwork, instantly better results. No wind at all and I was flying the ball over the flag at 143y with my GW... 9i 165-170... 5i 205-210... driver- don't know- ran out of room on the range-hitting the fence (250y) about 10-30 feet up. All clubs were pretty close to the PGA Tour Trackman averages for distance. All nice traj with not much movement either way... when I posted-up, and ONLY when I posted up though. I'm still an 11H/C so I'm not try to brag, trust me... just trying to provide examples of what good legwork can accomplish.
It's all in the legs for me. I can really feel when I get soft [insert joke here] vs when I crush the can. I was thinking "I need to video this for proof... there's no way the guys will believe me." Well, I didn't tape anything so you'll have to take my word for it, lol.
Here's my most recent taped swing: 5 iron, 210y if memory serves.
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Post by natep on Nov 30, 2011 0:31:40 GMT -5
Thanks natep for sharing your experience. Are you hinting that the spinning of the left foot leads to some other issues? Would love to hear more about it. In my opinion this squat is most helpful the more rotational your pivot is thru impact. If you squat with both knees out, them squeeze your thighs together hard you can turn very fast, hard, on a tight axis. Here's a visual:
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Post by rohlio on Nov 30, 2011 0:45:56 GMT -5
The left foot must spin to avoid injury. You only have so much rotation available in your knee joint, The unweighting and spinning of the front foot is a stretch reflex of the cruciate ligaments in the knee causing you to unweight your foot when the torque on the joint is too high.
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Post by golfdad on Nov 30, 2011 7:26:47 GMT -5
cloran, nice compact swing you have! What you have brought up--more of a reaction from setup than an action-- has crossed my feeble mind as well:). In this trial and error period with my kids, I will keep that thought alive, to see and experience how the horse and cart arrange themselves,,, rohlio,,you have brought up some solid points that is also concerns of mine regarding the rotational stress put on the twisting left lower limb. What I find interesting is that in the models that Kelvin used in his article, those 4 players all had back swing which caused the left foot to float up before the downswing. I feel that when the left foot is in that position, it is easier to hip abduct and ext rotate--to move the knee from point inward to outward. but somewhere later the left foot still needs to plant, and in this case, there is a strong rotational torque while it is planting finally. here is one from snead himself www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzefeTswKfY&feature=watch_responseand from another person www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=mwNHCRPd3ow
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Post by jeffy on Nov 30, 2011 12:15:08 GMT -5
Golfdad-
I don't think the second guy is doing it right after the squat. The extension is not pushing into the ground with the quads, it is extending the hips and knees with the glutes. His left knee stays bent too long and he doesn't go into left hip internal rotation fast enough. His whole motion looks sluggish.
Jeff
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Post by golfdad on Nov 30, 2011 14:41:17 GMT -5
looks like nothing escapes the squat guru, thank jeffy.
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Post by golfdad on Nov 30, 2011 18:00:39 GMT -5
OK! a little progress report!
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Post by jeffy on Nov 30, 2011 18:46:27 GMT -5
She's a genius! Great squat, just needs to get better extension and less lateral movement. Looks like she is a great mimic, so I suggest having her watch these videos: This kid is great and is using a training device Kelvin developed to help learn the squat: Don't think your daughter needs it, but here are instructions to make one:
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Post by golfdad on Nov 30, 2011 19:46:07 GMT -5
Thanks Jeffy,,,a goofball she is.
So that device is to allow students to feel how it feels like to ext rotate/int rotate? neat.
We will look into your comment and I can see what you mean now. Interesting how if one does not know what to look for, one will never see:)
Thanks again!
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Post by mchepp on Nov 30, 2011 19:52:43 GMT -5
OK! a little progress report! That looks like an awesome golf basement!
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