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Post by jeffy on Dec 5, 2011 12:51:47 GMT -5
2.) Right leg internally rotates (from a position of maximal external rotation)
Lukman-
You have this one backwards. At the top of the backswing, the right hip should be in maximum INTERNAL ROTATION.
Jeff
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Post by lia41985 on Dec 5, 2011 13:04:19 GMT -5
Really! Here are the quotes from the article: "From the back, you can see how he’s holding ER in his right leg while the left separates to create the bow-legged appearance. ...Notice Palmer has his right leg in ER on the backswing thus has to really hold that position while the left leg does ER to reach the same squat position. As he holds the right leg in ER, this creates a stretch for the next move of IR." |
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Post by jeffy on Dec 5, 2011 13:13:40 GMT -5
"From the back, you can see how he’s holding ER in his right leg while the left separates to create the bow-legged appearance. ...Notice Palmer has his right leg in ER on the backswing thus has to really hold that position while the left leg does ER to reach the same squat position. As he holds the right leg in ER, this creates a stretch for the next move of IR."
Uh, you do know that the "right leg" is not the same thing as the "right hip"?
The right knee goes into external rotation early in the backswing; then the right hip goes into internal rotation late in the backswing.
Jeff
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Post by lia41985 on Dec 5, 2011 13:20:17 GMT -5
"From the back, you can see how he’s holding ER in his right leg while the left separates to create the bow-legged appearance. ...Notice Palmer has his right leg in ER on the backswing thus has to really hold that position while the left leg does ER to reach the same squat position. As he holds the right leg in ER, this creates a stretch for the next move of IR." Uh, you do know that the "right leg" is not the same thing as the "right hip"? The right knee goes into external rotation early in the backswing; then the right hip goes into internal rotation late in the backswing. Jeff Jeff, If that's the case, why are you conflating them here: 2.) Right leg internally rotates (from a position of maximal external rotation)Lukman- You have this one backwards. At the top of the backswing, the right hip should be in maximum INTERNAL ROTATION. Jeff |
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Post by golfdad on Dec 5, 2011 13:22:58 GMT -5
Hey guys, easy does it.
knee, for the most part, has only 2 functions, flexion and extension. "leg" is used loosely here and there. It should refer to below the knee and often used in other capacity, not necessarily to confuse the issue.
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Post by jeffy on Dec 5, 2011 13:37:24 GMT -5
Jeff, If that's the case, why are you conflating the leg and knee at the top of the page? Seems disingenuous. You're right, my mistake. Check out the video: Jeff |
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Post by lia41985 on Dec 5, 2011 13:44:24 GMT -5
Jeff,
Kelvin does a couple of telling things:
1.) Ignore the down-the-line view I posted of Jamie's swing.
2.) Now acknowledge the "third" move, flexion of the leg (this was the omission, mistake he made earlier in referring to the leg being "held" in external rotation. There's no such thing. The leg is flexing as it is internally rotating.)
Thanks for getting him to do that but he hasn't disproven what I've said, if anything, he's acknowledge some shortcomings of his approach, although not directly, so it's not that admirable. Although I do appreciate the time that went into the production of the video.
By the way, why did he post this on your account and not his own? He's responding to one of his own teaching points and he can't do it on his own account? That's really strange.
-Lukman
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Post by jeffy on Dec 5, 2011 13:47:25 GMT -5
Lukman-
As usual, people see what they want to see.
He was busy, so asked me to do it.
Jeff
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Post by lia41985 on Dec 5, 2011 13:51:47 GMT -5
It was a question, Jeff (about why the video was posted to your account). He's busy? That's a pretty sorry excuse! It's a 3 minute video. YouTube takes about 5 minutes to upload a video like that. He didn't have 5 minutes to upload but he had more than 3 or 5 to think about what he was going to say and then make the video? Something seems off about that. And on the subject of biased perspectives why did Kelvin ignore the down-the-line video? How about that acknowledgement of the flexion (which is what was being confused for "holding")?
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Post by tba on Dec 5, 2011 13:59:47 GMT -5
@ Lia now your been intellectually dishonest , he told you the dtl view is almost useless to see what is in dispute. Why he used Jeffy's account is meaningless, it's Kelvin talking in the video. I guess Kelvin is as busy as Brian, it works as an excuse for Brian so I guess it works for others also.
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Post by jeffy on Dec 5, 2011 14:01:36 GMT -5
For crying out loud...  If it makes you feel better, when he frees up I'll ask him to post it to speedchain111. Jeff |
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Post by natep on Dec 5, 2011 14:02:18 GMT -5
Check out this view. Im not sure what to think.
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Post by lia41985 on Dec 5, 2011 14:05:24 GMT -5
tba, just because he's saying it's useless does not make it so. That's intellectually dishonest on his part, not mine. The down-the-line shows the opposite of what he's asserting and thus it is ignored. The issue of whose account the video was posted on is very much relevant. This whole "holding" phenomenon was his theory and in responding to a critique of his own theory he chose to post it on another account. At the very least that reeks of obfuscation. Kelvin also conveniently ignores that (in his own video, zoomed in) the belt buckle, as it rotates towards the target, is occurring at the same time that the left leg is internally rotating, which completely contradicts his theory.
I have no idea what you're talking about in regards for an excuse for Brian--so be clear! What are you talking about?
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Post by jeffy on Dec 5, 2011 14:11:21 GMT -5
How about that acknowledgement of the flexion
He discusses flexion later in the article, using young Jack as a model:
Dual Hip Flexion
The drop of the hips, anterior pelvic tilt, increase in lordosis and the weight shift have their origins in the flexion of the hips. Instead of just dropping from gravity, the iliopsoas, the major muscles involved in bringing your leg up toward your chest when running, is also capable of pulling the hip bone down. Of course this is a set up move for the power move involving extension of the hips to come later.
In young Jack’s swing you can see the flexion of both hips/legs and how this causes a drop and the weight shift to occur. You can also see his belt tilt downward which shows the tilting of the pelvis.
Jeff
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Post by rohlio on Dec 5, 2011 14:11:23 GMT -5
From watching that video by kelvin I do not see any active external rotation (viz. no recruitment of the musculature to externally rotate the femoral head). I do see him using flexion of the right thigh and leg and the friction of his right foot on the ground to delay the internal rotation of the femur. He then moves into an internal rotation of the right femur as his weight moves off of his right foot.
I think observationally he is pretty well on the money on this one. just my opinion.
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