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Post by gmbtempe on Dec 14, 2011 9:42:18 GMT -5
I don't know much about Moe Norman, but the guy here looks close. I can just hear a doubter saying "Moe Norman was the best ball striker EVER. Nobody can or will ever get close to swinging like him." Why not the same for the Hogan swing?? Now where the heck is Hogan's best pupil hiding?? Not hiding anywhere, it was Ken Venturi. |
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Post by cloran on Dec 14, 2011 11:07:09 GMT -5
I don't know much about Moe Norman, but the guy here looks close. I can just hear a doubter saying "Moe Norman was the best ball striker EVER. Nobody can or will ever get close to swinging like him." Why not the same for the Hogan swing?? Now where the heck is Hogan's best pupil hiding?? ... and if you want to see "little Moe" look up Todd Graves. Better than this guy a duplicating Moe's action imho. Why isn't there a good copy of Hogan's swing out there? [Greg beat me to it! argggg! lol] Ken Venturi Chad Campbell Matt Loving etc... |
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Post by cloran on Dec 14, 2011 11:14:56 GMT -5
Martin Ayers
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Post by cloran on Dec 14, 2011 11:24:28 GMT -5
... then there's the golf swing that Ben Hogan said was the best he'd ever seen... better than Hogan's? hmmm....
Mickey Wright
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Post by Richie3Jack on Dec 14, 2011 12:21:12 GMT -5
Jerry Barber
3JACK
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Post by Ben Hogan Swing Project on Dec 14, 2011 19:25:52 GMT -5
Yahh, I did a side-by-side comparison of Martin vs Hogan when I initially got into my swing research. |
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Post by Ben Hogan Swing Project on Dec 14, 2011 19:33:20 GMT -5
Is this really Hogan swinging here??
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Post by Ben Hogan Swing Project on Dec 14, 2011 19:53:49 GMT -5
I get the same questions all the time regarding "why" I'm doing this. Here's my reply from another forum:
Is your primary goal to have a swing that visually replicates Hogan's as closely as possible or to improve your game ? Yes, visual replication is the goal, and if I am able to get the visual down, then that has to, in some way, give an indirect ballstriking result. And by visually, I mean putting my swing vs Hogans, side-by-side on a screen, and step through it frame-by-frame. If the positions are close, then I am making progress. I think game improvement will be an indirect, but automatic occurance.
How long have you been playing golf ? Picked up my first club in 2007 at a company outing. I was a competetive softball player back then. One of my coworkers bet me that I couldn't hit the ball 100yds into the fairway. Said I could use any club I wanted to. I picked the driver cause it was the biggest lol. Had no idea about loft and side spin and grooves. Gave me 10 chances at it. 1st ball went about 200yds but had a small steering wheel attached to it; turned hard right. Ball #10 sliced two fairways over; after that day, I was hooked!
How often do you play ? March thru October, about once per week. One thing I puposefully do on the course that probably seems strange: I take no practice swings.....ever. Not even when putting. I have a reason for this.
What do you usually shoot ? All-time low this year is a 92. Avg score the past few years has been 101-108. Putting avg is approx 1.7.
How will you measure the success of your experiment ? For this phase of the project, Visually. For future projects, Better scores and Better ball striking.
Do you find your experiment more satisfying than playing a round of golf ? Sorry, don't know yet. havent finished the expriment yet. But, I can say, that there is not much satisfaction hitting balls 13yds in my basement swing lab lol!
Other thoughts.....why did I chose to use Hogan as my example? Because I like the way the swing looks, and I've never seen any other ordinary person have a swing that looked aesthetically as his. It's the most eye-appealing to me. If I had to pick a player of today, it would be Rory McIlroy, but again, this is not based on wins or performance or driving distance or any of that kind of stuff.....only the aesthetics.
Another question I get a lot.....why don't you just put all the effort into the "swing you were born with," rather than focus on trying to change your "natural swing" into someone elses? I am confused as to how people come up with the definition of "natrual swing." To me, there is no natural swing that you are born with. Just as there is no speaking accent that you are born with. If a Korean child, born to Korean parents, in Korea, is put on a plane, and flown to a farm in South Georgia, and is raised from age 0 to 15 by a surrounding of people that speak with a southern accent, this Korean child will have a southern accent. Just because they are born to Korean-speaking, Korean-looking parents, does not mean that they will "naturally" speak the same as them.
Same for the golf swing......you weren't born with any type of predisposed "golf swing" built into your DNA. You learned it. If you grew up never ever seeing anyone speaking of, or playing golf, and someone handed you a club, you would just stare at it, and have no idea what it is for. You would either have to have someone tell you how to use it, or observe it being used. If they told you that you swing the club by squatting your butt all the way to the ground, then jump up and spin around in two circles, this would be your "natural" swing. And if you practiced the heck out of it, and burned it into muscle-memory, you could play golf with it.
There are natural ROM's for each of us, but not a specific golf swing.
Regarding the "effort" queston, I do think I could tweek the "natural" swing I have developed over the past 4 years into scratch. But, I have decided that I don't like the swing "accent", and now want to change it. Naaaah, let me reword that.....I don't see anything wrong with my original swing accent, but now I want to see if it is at all possible to learn a new one.
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Post by cloran on Dec 14, 2011 23:15:32 GMT -5
Is this really Hogan swinging here?? I'm not sure to be honest, but if it is... sure lends credit to the "everyone has their own swing DNA" theory. Sure, there's some significant differences between this swing and the post-accident version, but the two are eerily similar. |
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Post by Ben Hogan Swing Project on Dec 15, 2011 13:45:43 GMT -5
Is this really Hogan swinging here?? I'm not sure to be honest, but if it is... sure lends credit to the "everyone has their own swing DNA" theory. Sure, there's some significant differences between this swing and the post-accident version, but the two are eerily similar. Yep, thats true, but I was thinking along different lines. That this guy sure looks goofy compared to Hogan. His right foot is spinning around wildly in the finish, and his club is finishing kinda sloppily and looks like its resting on his neck. If it is Hogan, it's cool to see the contrast in what the swing was, and what it became. |
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Post by Ben Hogan Swing Project on Dec 15, 2011 23:15:17 GMT -5
Still experimenting with lots of things. Haven't put together a solid training plan yet. Won't do that till I can get a basic understanding of a few more things. Only felt like doing some 3/4 swings today. My lower back has been giving me a tough time for the past few days; probably from me doing sort of a backwards lean as I swing through. Kim says I should give it up cause I'm tearing my body down. I say "no way....I'm in too deep and have learned too much." If it gets torn down to the point of needing a back transplant, I'll just work towards the Hogan in the Mr. Rogers yellow sweater. Until then........ONWARD MEN....ummmmm and women........C H A R G E !!!! I am getting soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo stinkin tired of this basement. My daughter, the family artist, offered to paint a golf course mural on the white sheet I'm hitting into.  If the weather is good this weekend, I'm gonna get out in the front yard yard and hit some of those birdieballs onto the neighbors roof. Just hope I don't get that urge to tee up a ProV1 to see if I can fade it around the two houses at the cul de sac. 0:48 5-metal 2:57 Sam Snead 1-wood 3:46 Taylormade Driver 450cc (ball on mat no tee) 4:21 McGregor 5-wood (grip is hard as a rock and feels like plastic. Ball ricocheted up into the girders. Probably hit top of club cause it rotates in my palm from lack of tacky grip.) 5:01 3-metal 5:33 5-metal 6:65 Sam Snead 1-wood slo mo |
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Post by Ben Hogan Swing Project on Dec 18, 2011 18:38:55 GMT -5
Made it to the course on Friday afternoon, but not to play. I watched Bruce and my Dad battle each other for December bragging rights. Too perfect a day for them to pass it up. 69-70 degrees with very little wind. They were a little baffled by my choice not to play. They know about my swing reconstruction goal and only tried to talk me into it about 100 times. But luckily, I didn't even bring my clubs, cause I'm not ready to focus on ball flight/course management yet. But I did need to get out of the solitary basement atmosphere to smell the green grass and listen to some fiendly trash talking.
They only played the front nine. After 8 holes, they were tied. My Dad won on the 9th hole by 1 stroke, after Bruce's 2nd shot pin-balled off a pine tree. Didn't bother me not playing cause I got to do lots of caddying and swing analysis. I've put so much time into looking at swing video the past few months that I'm starting to get an understand of what I am looking at, and how to pick out the things that are fundamentally good and bad. I'm definitely not a swing instructor, but one of my main goals, besides the Hogan duplication attempt, is to help my Dad with his golf game. He is 67 years old, freshly retired, and shoots in the 95-101 range. He has fun playing the game, but what I see now in his swing is absolutely no weight shift. He swings off his back foot, which makes him very armsy. He is working is butt off swinging with all upper body. I don't know how he makes it through 18 holes without being tired and drained.
He said he saw my Take 14 video and that my swing looks different, but that I will probably not be able to transition it from the basement to the course. Says he's working on his game too, and that he will be giving us extra strokes to keep things competitive. We'll see.......
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Post by Ben Hogan Swing Project on Dec 18, 2011 20:00:57 GMT -5
I reluctantly hung out with Kim on Saturday; I don't mind spending quality time with her, but I do mind SHOPPING NONSTOP FOR 8 STINKIN HOURS!
I swallowed the above rant because when she stopped by a goodwill/thrift store, I got a chance to browse the "thrifty" golf area. There were a few used, off-brand clubs and bags that had been abandonded by their owners.
I stumbled across the following:
a Ben Hogan AMF 1-wood (cracked hozel area),
a Ben Hogan AMF 1-wood, (good)
a Ben Hogan AMF 3-wood, (good)
a Ben Hogan AMF 4-wood (missing screw in sole)
All appear to have the original AMF grip, based on the "exclusive Hogan AMF design" stamped on the end of the grip. I'm not sure if these are men's or women's clubs.
The 4-wood feels just like my TaylorMade 5-metal.
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Post by Ben Hogan Swing Project on Dec 27, 2011 16:13:53 GMT -5
I've been reviewing my share of Hogan videos and have yet to see a full swing of him with his left heel planted.
Has anyone seen any full-swing vid of Hogan where his left heel DOESN'T raise as he gets to the top?
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Post by gmbtempe on Dec 27, 2011 16:44:38 GMT -5
I've been reviewing my share of Hogan videos and have yet to see a full swing of him with his left heel planted. Has anyone seen any full-swing vid of Hogan where his left heel DOESN'T raise as he gets to the top? There are couple wood swings in a row here at 125 that it does not. I think he just swing and if it lifted it lifted and for most of his career he did. |
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